Stats on attack on women by men self identifying as women?

[Bb2019]

Hello everyone,

I've been lurking on this board and generally following the mainstream uk press about trans issues including the JK Rowling debate etc.

I've been shocked with the likes of Mermaids and the Tavistock centre prescribing under 18s life changing treatments.

I'm still trying to understand the implications and form an informed opinion on the use of women only places by trans women. I understand it would make many women uncomfortable if it were obvious.

Do we have any statistics or research done on how often women or girls have been attacked in their own spaces by men passing as trans women and or by trans women? I know it happens anecdotally but how much more likely is it to happen? Is it isolated incidents or is the risk much heightened? Perhaps it's not possible to do this type of research though due to a paucity of data?

Thanks!

@334bu Everyone who produces propaganda like this believes it is necessary and that their cause is vital and their techniques are justified. But I think from an objective standpoint most people think tactics like this are not necessary and are likely to incite hatred towards already marginalised groups. Certainly a lot of people I've known who've been on the fence somewhat on the trans issue find this kind of propaganda quite horrifying and have come away from it thinking that elements of the GC movement are fuelled by prejudice as opposed to legitimate concerns. I really don't think it does your cause any favours, although I'm sure anyone from a far right group will love it and share it with all their far right friends, and perhaps most worringly feel more empowered to use these kinds of techniques against other groups they dislike.

jj1968
So what about the trans activist propaganda against women who do not share their views? Do you approve of no platforming, violently protesting women's meetings, using the the very well financed muscle of the trans community and its allies to hound women from their jobs, the obscene and violentabuse targeting prominent and not so prominent gender critical women? Two wrongs don't make a right but the sheer amount of abuse levelled at women who are only striving to maintain the rights that they have managed to claw from the patriarchy is quite abhorrent

@334bu

Stopthisnow

Yes we are now 19 pages into transgender bingo and I believe all the balls have been drawn but I might be wrong there still could be one or two more to come.

Can someone shout HOUSE, get the crystal decanter and glasses set then we can all go home?

@334bu

jj1968 So what about the trans activist propaganda against women who do not share their views? Do you approve of no platforming, violently protesting women's meetings, using the the very well financed muscle of the trans community and its allies to hound women from their jobs, the obscene and violentabuse targeting prominent and not so prominent gender critical women? Two wrongs don't make a right but the sheer amount of abuse levelled at women who are only striving to maintain the rights that they have managed to claw from the patriarchy is quite abhorrent

I think the issue of people losing positions for things they've said on social media, whether that's Maya Forstater or Munroe Bergdorf, is a complex matter beyond the scope of this thread. However I condemn without reservation any violence towards women, threats of violence or displays of misogyny that have been made by those who are trans supportive towards GC activists.

I think Munroe Bergdoff being dropped by NSPCC for breaching safeguarding rules on social media by encouraging minors to make private contact is not the same as being hounded out of a job for believing in biological reality.

However, I apologise for continuing the derailment of this thread.
Back to the stats. Have at it!

Interesting that you bring up the topic of Asian grooming gangs jj1968 - how many girls suffered because people were too chicken shit to tackle the problem because they were afraid of being branded as racist?

The same could be said of what you are doing now - you are saying we are basically not allowed to talk about male crimes if the males who commit it identify as women, because that would make us 'far right bigots'.

Thanks a fucking bunch.

Only 2 of the people in that video were convicted of an offence that took place in a woman's space. The same two people who come up over and over again because it's the only times it has happened. I have never said it never happens, I have said it is incredibly rare and that the risk of being assaulted by a trans woman in a women's space is probably 100s of millions to one.

It doesn't matter how many specifically took place in a women's space - the point of the video, as I have already said, is to show that it doesn't matter how a man identifies, if he is a dangerous criminal. And most dangerous criminals are men.

Where is your list of all the transwomen assaulted in blokes bogs then?

I have said it is incredibly rare and that the risk of being assaulted by a trans woman in a women's space is probably 100s of millions to one.

That is a silly thing to say. There is solid evidence to the contrary. When males are allowed to enter women's spaces, crimes against women increase.

This is well documented in recent times where males have been allowed to enter women's spaces if they claim they identify as women and then crimes against women and girls committed by those males in those spaces have increased.

Why are you denying that well documented reality? How does that help your cause?

Also, what about the males who don't actually commit an assault but strut around a women's shelter with their erect cock out and brag about it on social media a la Tyler Porter. I mean they are not committing any crime so surely they women have nothing to complain about...

Some women simply will be excluded from public life if single sex spaces become mixed sex.

Including, but not limited to, women from a number of religious groups.

This is the very reason women campaigned for women's toilets in the first place. To allow women to participate in the world.

Third spaces allow for everyone to have comfort, privacy, dignity, safety and allow all to participate in public life. If all the energy trying to erode / destroy the boundaries women and girls was spent on lobbying for third spaces we'd probably have them by now.

Wow jj you’re still going 😱

This is the absolute biggest mEraiL I’ve seen yet. And I def Can someone shout HOUSE will call this 🤩

You’re like the Duracell bunny, yet not so benign. Or funny. Or fluffy 😂😬

I stopped reading anything you said as you’re clearly ignoring anything I’ve said. C'est la vie.

Go well #1968

I do see your point jj, and admire your tenacity in arguing your viewpoint here. This has been a really thought provoking thread.

But when I watched that video, I didn’t see transwomen, I saw shitty men pretending to be transwomen, and I think most people would see the same. So, to me, this is not propaganda against transwomen, but simply lends weight to one of the GC feminists main concerns ie. that shitty men will misuse self-id to commit crimes. I agree it’s a bit lurid, but I think that is necessary to show people what’s really happening. If you simply stated that the crimes of 71 transwomen were reported as female crimes, or even gave a list of their names, you would not see that these people are clearly men. So wouldn’t that be more damaging to the public perception of actual transwomen?

It does bother me, as I’m sure it does many of us, that decent transwomen who just want to live their lives in peace will be negatively affected by the behaviour of men like this, and the charmers who ask women to suck their lady diques, or send pictures of themselves with baseball bats. But if that happens, it will not be the fault of the people who expose these behaviours. Just as the people who exposed the grooming gangs can not be held responsible for any negative consequences for innocent Asian men.

As for your statement that it looks like propaganda to most people, I think you must be living in a different world from me. Im pretty sure most people would look at that video and think ‘I can’t believe this is happening, and why are the police and press colluding with it? - and has the world gone bloody mad?’ (Or words to that effect). And would be extremely grateful to all the fabulous GC feminists who are exposing the truth (as the mainstream press are not) and are fighting the madness, often at great cost to themselves.

I think that looks a lot like propaganda to me. I think it does to most people, and I think it's why there are concerns that there are elements operating within GC circles whose agenda is to incite hatred towards trans people

You do realise that if you campaigned for your own spaces, then this would not arise in the first instance. Your are forcing women to have to defend their boundaries and protections - by insisting on entering into spaces that have been set aside for women ( & girls) as a group.

The total lack of consideration towards women and their particular needs does not speak well of how you view them. and indeed, many women have been subject to hatred, as well as physical attacks and intimidatory violence by those purporting to be allies of trans people, as well as by trans identified people themselves.

I cannot recall one instance of gender critical women storming a meeting or picketing outside of avenue, whilst screaming hateful abuse.

One more point: the number of women who will be excluded from public space because their religion prohibits mixed sex toilets / changing rooms etc will certainly be FAR greater than all trans people.

So, why not third spaces?

I know what I think the answer to that question is.

‘Can someone shout HOUSE, get the crystal decanter and glasses set then we can all go home?‘

Sorry, It took me so long to compose my post, that I didn’t see the cries of despair that came before It, so I feel rather bad for helping to keep the thread going. I think it has been interesting but I’m a bit knackered now. and Pointless is on soon. So I’m out.

I have to admit I am impressed at your stamina, jj! And you have managed to remain polite throughout, which is a definite improvement on our usual visitors.

Despite that, you have still failed to respond to any questions which might detract from or show your cause in a bad light. That's a bit disingenuous.

Did you have any sources for suggesting that transwomen are at risk when using men's single sex spaces, for example? From what I've read, they're the safest demographic in the UK.

I think most people are fairly tolerant of diversity. I personally couldn't give two hoots how someone dresses or acts.

However, I want, in some instances, to have a space that is male-free. In a healthcare setting, in changing rooms, I wish to have the knowledge of a single sex female-only space. And there are certain issues pertaining to my female-hood that I do not wish to discuss with or in front of a male bodied person, however lovely, kind and polite they may be - so some groups set up for women should be quite legitimately able to be 'women only'.

Have a good weekend, y'all. Good luck to whomever is going for the crystal decanter I'll be necking wine straight out the bottle shortly.

When posts start getting deleted you know that the people reporting have run out of arguments.

Or People posting have resorted to making unpleasant sweeping generalisations.

Boosting

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4002092-FWR-clarification-deletion-and-strikes?

On the back of this and other threads.

they believe that feelings of a subset of males should be permitted to overrule female’s right to female only spaces.

An alternative interpretation is that there is good medical/ ethical/ legal opinion that some people should be treated as their transitioned sex for most (but not all) purposes. Both male and female transsexual people.

I too must congratulate jj1968 on their stamina and while I might have found their ability to evade, deflect and sometimes misrepresent frustrating I can't help but admire their ability to keep going totally ignoring questions and evidence put before them.
Now as my mammy used to say " I'm awa to make the tea. " Have a good weekend everyone!

@KnowingYou

When posts start getting deleted you know that the people reporting have run out of arguments.

Or People posting have resorted to making unpleasant sweeping generalisations.

Interestingly, quite the opposite for that last deletion. It was a specific observation based on personal experience. One I have shared and therefore could have made, too, but I've been arguing the legal stuff and clogged up the thread more than seems reasonable now, so I decided against it.

CharlieParley your posts are extremely informed and I for one like reading them. As I suspect do many lurkers.

@KnowingYou

they believe that feelings of a subset of males should be permitted to overrule female’s right to female only spaces.

An alternative interpretation is that there is good medical/ ethical/ legal opinion that some people should be treated as their transitioned sex for most (but not all) purposes. Both male and female transsexual people.

In light of this thread that interpretation seems overly generous. But on your point we can agree.

The Equality Act allows the exclusion of all males from the legal set asides created for females. For most purposes of our lives this is not necessary, that's why this is only ever lawful under specific circumstances and for objectively justifiable purposes.

Most importantly, it allows for solutions that provide privacy and safety for males who identify as trans without sacrificing the privacy and safety of females.

I shouldn't get sucked into the derail, but I notice that jj appears to think that the horrendous abuses and torture inflicted on women and girls by "grooming gangs" shouldn't be talked about because the right wing weaponise it.

I suppose this is entirely consistent with jj's complete indifference towards violence against women, and callous disregard for womens' suffering, as demonstrated throughout the entirety of this thread. But I have to say that it's deeply distressing to witness this indifference and it's not conducive to a feeling of safety.