Stats on attack on women by men self identifying as women?

[Bb2019]

Hello everyone,

I've been lurking on this board and generally following the mainstream uk press about trans issues including the JK Rowling debate etc.

I've been shocked with the likes of Mermaids and the Tavistock centre prescribing under 18s life changing treatments.

I'm still trying to understand the implications and form an informed opinion on the use of women only places by trans women. I understand it would make many women uncomfortable if it were obvious.

Do we have any statistics or research done on how often women or girls have been attacked in their own spaces by men passing as trans women and or by trans women? I know it happens anecdotally but how much more likely is it to happen? Is it isolated incidents or is the risk much heightened? Perhaps it's not possible to do this type of research though due to a paucity of data?

Thanks!

And you keep saying 'transwomen have been using the ladies forever' which again is bullshit. You are talking about a tiny number of old school transsexuals who had had full surgery and were in the ladies as a courtesy. Now we have any bloody bloke who claims to be a woman (or non-binary or whatever) kicking up a stink on social media because those mean awful cis privileged women were uncomfortable with him with them at the leisure centre.

No. Just no. Fuck off.

Saying there’s a minuscule number of incidents is on a par with saying there’s a minuscule number of trans people. Sod the small minorities, not important.

I think this is worth repeating. We keep being told 'this never happens' and yet story after story comes out of it happening.

There are a handful of stories, the world over, over years of crimes committed by trans women in women's spaces. Christopher Harmbrook, Karen White, Dolatowski, a couple more. Women's spaces have been used billions of times by hundreds of millions of women in that period. We all know the names,and the reason we all know the names is because they happen so infrequently. Over a thousand men a year are convicted of rape just in the UK, how many of their names get known? How many even get reported outside of the local press? The reason assaults by trans people get in the papers is because they are so rare, not commonplace. An unfortunate by product of this, as with other tabloid scares, is that the prominence of these stories leads people to over estimate the problem rather than recognise it as so uncommon it was interesting enough (from a journalists point of view) to make the national press.

Well in many cases the old school crowd managed to get third spaces carved out where they needed them. They often shown a consideration lacking in younger transpeopel

I increasingly come across

@BewaretheIckabog

Saying there’s a minuscule number of incidents is on a par with saying there’s a minuscule number of trans people. Sod the small minorities, not important.

I don't think it is on a par. When I say miniscule I mean less than double figures. There are tens of millions of trans women in the world.

Can you define transwoman please? You still haven't really clarified who you mean? Do you mean surgery hormones, a dress, makeup, just their word? Do you think that any man who claims to be a woman should be allowed access to female spaces?

I don't think it is on a par. When I say miniscule I mean less than double figures. There are tens of millions of trans women in the world

I definitely question this.

My local newspaper, alone, now has fairly frequent reports of trans identified males committing crimes; usually violent, and often involving pornography and other sexual abuses. These crimes are now presented as female crimes, but the instinct tells you, and then the photograph verifies that these are indeed males.

Males still display typical male offending, even when they identify as women.

Why the fuck should women have to put up with this sort of shite?

We know what males do. We have seen it thousands of times. Stuff like this comes as zero surprise to women. Which is why women don't want males in their spaces.

How do you know how they identify? There seem to be a lot of gender nonconforming young mpeople about who identify as non binary, plus a lot more gender nonconformity in young men than there was a decade or so ago

There have always been gender non conforming people about. Many of us here would certainly say we're gender non conforming. It is nothing new or novel or revolutionary. What is new is people presenting themselves as trans...and it is fairly clear when this is the case.

Yeah yeah these infinitesimal number of assaults were either not committed by real transwomen or maybe they weren't strictly committed in a designated female only space or if it was they weren't prosecuted for it ( assaults in prison for example) Also voyeurism, exposure, illicitly photographing women in vulnerable situations don't count as no physical harm done.

Ignore all of the above and you might just get the numbers down.
Doesn't explain all the transwomen sex offenders in jail , far in excess percentage wise than female sex offenders. I wonder what vanishingly small number of crimes did these transwomen commit.

@KingFredsTache

Can you define transwoman please? You still haven't really clarified who you mean? Do you mean surgery hormones, a dress, makeup, just their word? Do you think that any man who claims to be a woman should be allowed access to female spaces?

I have defined it for the purpose of this conversation I'd say anyone who meets the definition of gender reassignment within the Equality Act when talking specifically about UK law, but more broadly anyone who identifies as a trans woman is fine too.

The reason for that is that I don't think anyone who wasn't a trans women would identify that way. There don't seem to be any confirmed cases of men claiming a trans identity to specifically access women's spaces and abuse women. And yes, that means accepting that someone like Karen White is a trans woman rather than a man dishonestly claiming to be trans to access women. There will be trans women who commit awful crimes, just as there are non trans woman but thankfully they are very rare.

It seems jj1968 you are using a different definition of transwomen to us. We are talking about the Stonewall definition. What are you referring to?

Sorry missed your reply

Yes non transwomen (women) committing sexual assaults are extremely rare. Something like 99:1. So why bring it up. It is irrelevant.

@334bu I think whether someone is actually a trans woman and whether the assault actually happened in a women's space are pretty reasonable stipulations when discussing how many trans women have assaulted women in women's spaces.

Anyway off to bed now, night.

I have defined it for the purpose of this conversation I'd say anyone who meets the definition of gender reassignment within the Equality Act when talking specifically about UK law, but more broadly anyone who identifies as a trans woman is fine too.

So basically any man who says he is a woman?

The reason for that is that I don't think anyone who wasn't a trans women would identify that way.

Seriously? Do you know anything about the lengths that men go to to commit crimes? The choose entire careers based on what kind of access to vulnerable people they may get, they take all sorts of crazy risks, will crawl through shit to install a camera somewhere, anything really. Do you honestly think they won't say 'er, yeah I'm totally a woman' if it means unfettered access to female spaces?

So Karen White is a genuine transwoman who just happened to hit the jackpot with a prison full of potential sexual assault victims? You don't think Karen's desire to go to a female prisons was anything to do with the fact he would have opportunity to assault women in a way he wouldn't in a male prison?

I think whether someone is actually a trans woman and whether the assault actually happened in a women's space are pretty reasonable stipulations when discussing how many trans women have assaulted women in women's spaces.

Well actually we are talking about how much of a risk transwomen (who are male) are as a group. So attacks and assaults outside of specifically female spaces would be relevant to that.

Yet up thread you dismissed all those UK transwomen criminals featured in the transcrime video as merely transvestites and not real transwomen. So what is a transwoman? Is it just the nice law abiding ones?

We are supposed to accept that there is an infinitesimal number of assaults in women's spaces by transwomen (or men pretending to be trans),while simultaneiously being expected to believe there is a huge number of assaults of transwomen by men in men's spaces.

And yet, there are many examples of the former (on twitter, in the newspapers, in the "it never happens" archives), and very few of the latter - in fact I'm prepared to be proven wrong, but I don't recall seeing any newspaper report of a transwoman being assaulted in a men's toilet or changing rooms.

@334bu

Yet up thread you dismissed all those UK transwomen criminals featured in the transcrime video as merely transvestites and not real transwomen. So what is a transwoman? Is it just the nice law abiding ones?

The distinction I made was between those who identified as trans women and who were subsequently tried and convicted as women (in terms of names/pronouns etc) and those who identified as men, and so who were tried and convicted as men.

in fact I'm prepared to be proven wrong, but I don't recall seeing any newspaper report of a transwoman being assaulted in a men's toilet or changing rooms.

That's because trans women don't use men's toilets or changing rooms.

Really am off to bed now.