Why are we meant to respect sex workers?

[FlamedToACrisp]

OK, I appreciate I came to the feminism party late. You lot are all on your fourth drinks and the buffet table is half-empty, but I'm still trying to edge my way into the conversation and make sense of it all. So please don't do the sneering 'educate yourself' thing - if you don't want to talk to me about this subject, I'll just go and sit in the kitchen and talk to the dog.

Anyway:

Over recent years (at my age, anything after 1990 feels recent), the term 'prostitute' has become 'sex worker.' And with it, the attitude to prostitutes has changed. I was brought up to regard them as either mercenary law-breakers or nympho sinner sluts encouraging married men to be unfaithful, but now I'm supposed to feel they're just women (or men) choosing this way to make their living and we shouldn't be judgemental.

I haven't looked into this issue; lucky me, it has not impinged much on my life, although obviously I'm aware there are sex trafficking considerations. Have I got it right or misunderstood? What's the cause of this change?

So, is prostitution now socially ok? And if so, why is 'prostitute' an unacceptable term?

Kantastic feeling sorry for me? I made over $600,000 in a year. Please don't feel sorry for me.

I'm curious as to why you think I have never experienced good sex?

I think you have the wrong people if you’re expecting us to tell you to “educate yourself” - that’s the other lot.

MN feminists are generally of the old school kind rather than the new liberal feminism that says that any choice a woman makes for herself is a feminist one. Many of us tend to believe that while you’re making a good decision for yourself financially as a sex worker, you’re cementing the notion that women’s consent is a commodity that can be bought, and that women’s bodies are there for men’s pleasure, which is not good for women AS A CLASS regardless of how much an individual may benefit from her own experience of earning money from sex.

nah, I've read more of your posts and I certainly do not intend to discuss sex with you. I guess you'll have to resign yourself to never knowing how that phrase revealed so much about you.

winerack I think it’s because you allude to the fact that women have no strings sex with no expectation of their own pleasure for free. Most of us have higher standards than that for our own sex lives. I imagine (but of course happy to be corrected) that when a man is paying for it, you can’t demand that he gives you a foot rub/back massage first and makes sure you climax at least a few times before he finishes.

Kantastic how very passive aggressive!! To make a ridiculous statement like that and then say "nah, not gonna discuss it."

For what it's worth, I was in a very happy relationship during the year I escorted and we had amazing sex since you seem interested. We were together for 5 years in total and remain very good friends and she was completely ok with my life choices.

You seem quite naive. "getting paid for what women often give away for free" is a common term (or along those lines) when referring to escorting/getting paid for sexual favours. Baffled that you've never come acros it .

@MarkRuffaloCrumble

winerack I think it’s because you allude to the fact that women have no strings sex with no expectation of their own pleasure for free. Most of us have higher standards than that for our own sex lives. I imagine (but of course happy to be corrected) that when a man is paying for it, you can’t demand that he gives you a foot rub/back massage first and makes sure you climax at least a few times before he finishes.

I don't think she said anything about expectation of pleasure.. at least that's not the way I read it.. and anyway who says the sex worker wants to climax?

MarkRuffaloCrumble and if you really think that every time a woman has sex, she has an orgasm and asks her partner to give her a foot massage, you're living in a romantic novel dreamland.

someone's getting testy.

@JadesRollerDisco It's the punters who are to blame for prostitution/ sex work not the prostitutes/workers. If there are no customers you have to shut up shop. Yes, but by the same token, if a product/service is not available locally, potential customers may not bother to travel or search extensively to acquire that item, and simply do without - hence why they were thought to 'tempt'. Although obviously the desire for sex is much greater than the desire for, say, a kebab, the business principle is the same.

@DelphiniumBlue thank you, that's interesting, and grim - not exactly 'Pretty Woman,' is it?

@ErrolTheDragon I most definitely do blame the married man. I don't doubt that some rationalise their actions by feeling they are 'only' having sex and not an affair, or that they are fulfilling 'needs' which their wife won't satisfy. These arguments would cut no ice with me!

@Terranean thank you, that's what I need.

@MotherOfGreyhound to be fair, my parents considered everyone who had sex outside marriage as sinful.

@LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett boy do they like to choose to stick their dicks in the nearest available hole this reminded me of a reddit sub: 'don't put your dick in that' featuring basically anything vulva-shaped or with almost any hole - I'm sure the need to stick dicks in holes is a natural urge, but restraining our urges is an important part of what civilisation is all about. Now we just need to convince the men of that!

You do you....

@pallisers You might want to work on your development of decent human values before you start on the feminism stuff

Yes, please teach me how to be as patronising as you. You know absolutely jack about my human values.

It's a shame when a good debate is derailed by point scoring

@winerack19

Kantastic feeling sorry for me? I made over $600,000 in a year. Please don't feel sorry for me.

I'm curious as to why you think I have never experienced good sex?

How so? That would be $2400 a day working 50 weeks a year - 5 days a week.

Worriedtonightagain I was factoring in the money I also received from clients just as gifts (birthday, Christmas, some 'just because.')
In the year I had plane tickets bought for me, my rent paid, car payments paid, new clothes, makeup etc. Not through what I was earning but as extra. So yes adding it all up it came to over $600,000

I don’t believe it, but I can’t verify and I don’t care. Lol

@winerack19

Worriedtonightagain I was factoring in the money I also received from clients just as gifts (birthday, Christmas, some 'just because.') In the year I had plane tickets bought for me, my rent paid, car payments paid, new clothes, makeup etc. Not through what I was earning but as extra. So yes adding it all up it came to over $600,000

Winerack, I am surprised you find the need to justify yourself by explaining anything. It's red rag when you have to support your argument with economics :)

@Worriedtonightagain

I don’t believe it, but I can’t verify and I don’t care. Lol

So why ask ??

Interested of.......

I have respect for sex workers because they are humans and I feel that every human deserves a base level of respect. People might do things that make me lose respect for them but being paid for sex isn't one of them, and I think that's how most feminists feel about it.

There is currently a big divide in feminism over sex work/prostitution.

The reality (In my opinion but I think there's more evidence for this than not) is that a huge % of sex workers are actually trafficked. Modern slavery is rife even in places like Amsterdam where sex work is legal. Women are held by debt, addiction (deliberately inflicted by those who control them), threats and/or physical restraint.

In those circumstances, it's reasonable to state that it's not sex work, it's rape. There are people who think that most of the industry is like this (I'm one of them). There are also people who feel that it's paid rape because payment is not a form of consent.

There will always be the odd story told on these boards like @winerack19 's. It is that type of a story that people who think sex work is work are thinking of, and they presumably think the majority of people in the industry are like winerack. Women who have freedom and a genuine choice, choosing to have sex for money.

That's the current hot topic within feminism regarding prostitution. "They don't deserve respect" doesn't come into it. They're humans, most likely a great many of them are trafficked slaves. Of course they deserve respect.

As per below, come on OP, it's not hard. Do you really think the majority of them want to be doing that?

ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble
You're supposed to respect them because they are people. It's that simple.

Now if you meet one who is a dick and horrible to you,then fair enough.

To disrespect and consider as less a big proportion of people based simply on the fact they're sex workers(many not by choice) is stupid , archaic and mysoginistic (considering the majority of sex worker are female).

Worriedtonightagain ...what ? I'm really not looking to cause an argument, but why would I like? you claim "not to care" but cared enough to do the maths to figure out my earnings?

Anordinarymum hmm.. I mean I'm very open about my past. I don't mind talking about it at all and often do. I'm an admin of a SW (or prostitute as is probably more favoured here ) on Facebook and discuss various issues around SW daily... I merely stated where my earnings came from as PP seemed to take an interest considering she did the maths to figure out my earnings

I don't have a problem with sex workers, but I think there is definitely a stigma. The response you'll get in real life is probably quite different to mumsnet.

Winerack, the problem is that you justify yourself by the amount of money you made, and not the way you made it. Some ladies don't fare so well

"Prostituted women" is more the sort of phrase that radical feminists would use, I think. It puts the 'fault' of the exploitation of women's bodies where it belongs.

Most posters here would support the "Nordic model", if you look it up. The basics are illustrated here.