Why are we meant to respect sex workers?

[FlamedToACrisp]

OK, I appreciate I came to the feminism party late. You lot are all on your fourth drinks and the buffet table is half-empty, but I'm still trying to edge my way into the conversation and make sense of it all. So please don't do the sneering 'educate yourself' thing - if you don't want to talk to me about this subject, I'll just go and sit in the kitchen and talk to the dog.

Anyway:

Over recent years (at my age, anything after 1990 feels recent), the term 'prostitute' has become 'sex worker.' And with it, the attitude to prostitutes has changed. I was brought up to regard them as either mercenary law-breakers or nympho sinner sluts encouraging married men to be unfaithful, but now I'm supposed to feel they're just women (or men) choosing this way to make their living and we shouldn't be judgemental.

I haven't looked into this issue; lucky me, it has not impinged much on my life, although obviously I'm aware there are sex trafficking considerations. Have I got it right or misunderstood? What's the cause of this change?

So, is prostitution now socially ok? And if so, why is 'prostitute' an unacceptable term?

Furthermore even those women higher up the sex food chain so to speak who engage in it briefly and get qualifications and smartly invest, and seem to have no outward signs of trauma. There is still a societal inequality there as very few men need to engage in sex work to become academics, scientists, climb the corporate ladder to get ahead in life etc So yes whilst at first glance our minted happy hooker might seem to be a success story?

There are very few men and very few women who adopt that "career path". "Societal inequality" is irrelevant here. There really is not a "need" to become a prostitute or a stripper to become an academic, scientist, climb the corporate ladder to get ahead in life etc.

Why do excuses always have to be made for women? The "happy hooker , Belle du Jour , look how much I'm raking in" are complicit in the normalisation of prostitution.

I think I'm beginning to have a better understanding and can see there should be more help and support for those with mental health problems. I'm intrigued what the men do who face similar mental health challenges? Deal drugs? Steal? Live on the streets?

My original comment was more aimed towards those who 'do it for the lifestyle' and how this normalises it. I think people have to take responsibility for their actions and I'm sorry but I simply do not respect those people who choose to do it.

Also for those show keep mentioning how no men do it surely that is purely because there is no demand? Not because men are somehow 'above' doing it. You make it sound like women are inferior to men in some way.

I'm intrigued what the men do who face similar mental health challenges? Deal drugs? Steal? Live on the streets?

Yes. Yes. Yes.

And some of the really young ones end up being prostituted too.

Also for those show keep mentioning how no men do it surely that is purely because there is no demand? Not because men are somehow 'above' doing it. You make it sound like women are inferior to men in some way.

And why is there no demand? Because its a rare woman who feels so entitled to sex she will pay for it.

I'd argue that the fact that there are few female punters shows it's men who are inferior. Because so many of them can't control their entitlement

Who has said there is no demand? Of course men pay for sex with men. There is less demand because there are fewer men who fancy men. I mean that's just a basic obvious thing?

You've not heard of 'gay for pay' op?

Corona see my earlier post

'In society- as reflected in the media - and the whole gist of the OP - things usually seem to focus on the women.

Male sex workers (including prostitutes) are not really mentioned at all. That stuff with Keith Vaz was awful, talk of breaking a young man in. Labour party said, it's his personal life mustn't judge...'

Look up Keith Vaz. Of course there are men who are paid to have sex with men.

However I do think that your bog standard straight bloke would go for drug dealing or theft first. They won't have encountered this, there is the thing that many men have about gay sex, men tend not to be in the same sorts of situations re kids etc. It's a complicated topic but we can get into it if you like.

It's presented as a good option for women across society all the time.

Not the same for men. I doubt it would cross most men's minds so quickly. For women and girls it's the go to if you need cash.

@worriertryingnottoshowit neither you or me, or any sex workers for that matter need to justify why we were sex workers to anyone but ourselves, and I thought I was educating some on here that didn’t know the ins and outs of sex work and yet, some posters here have picked on me for apparently bragging about the money I earned (even if I did brag, so what? But I didn’t) not accepting that I don’t like the word prostitute etc etc, and some have more or less implied that men wouldn’t cheat if there were no hookers willing to ‘seduce’ their men .

I’m not saying this about any woman here but I have always said that some women are threatened by sex workers; hookers, lap dancers etc etc and these are women that I’ve met in real life, it’s as if we get the blame for existing.

The only person a sex working is hurting by being a sex worker is herself, it’s the cheating men that are hurting the women they are with when they pay for sex with another.

Quite frankly if this job didn’t affect my mental health then I would do it for the rest of my life because I loved making £1800 a week and so what, this doesn’t affect anyone here so what’s the issue, jealousy that I can make in a week what some take a month to earn?

@DidoLamenting yes but Belle Du Jour funded her high flying academic career through her sex work. I don’t agree with her normalising sex work, but I have more sympathy for her position as to hey where she has gotten has been stacked against her relative to men because she is a woman.

On the respect front, consider Andrea Dworkin, do we not respect her because she was a prostitute briefly? And suffered brutality and abuse to go along with it, then went on the become a fierce advocate for women’s rights? all because her actions “normalised” the commercialised the commodification of women’s bodies? I’m sorry but I can’t quite get where you are with it.

@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble

The thing is I don't respect those men who go on to deal drugs or steal so I'm not sure why I should automatically respect those who become prostitutes? I'm struggling to follow the line of thinking.

My main worry is the more and more normalised it becomes the more and more women will think it's an option - either freely or when they feel it's their only way out.

@Dervel not too many hookers have experiences like Belle De Jour, was she even a real escort or was that program fiction? She was what they call a high class hooker, whatever that means, and the program made it glam when it really isn’t.

@coronaway I don’t really care whether you respect sex workers or not, like I’ve said it’s only me that has to be comfortable with what I did, even my family knew what I did and whilst my mum wasn’t happy about it then I’m glad I had the sort of relationship where I could be honest about it. The only lie I told her was that I got into it to pay for drugs, when in actual fact, it was having no money for Xmas that got me into it.

For a woman to get into sex work in the first place, then her self esteem and self worth are clearly on the floor, but self esteem and self worth don’t buy you nice things.

I’m not even ashamed I was a sex worker and I’ll always miss the money, who wouldn’t.

@Inappropriatefemale

@Inappropriatefemale I appreciate that. My comment was in reply to the op really who asked the question.

Fair enough @coronaway but I thought I would say so anyway.

There are lots of professions where the people doing them aren’t respected and sex work is one of them, personally I think us hookers should be admired for what we do, if it wasn’t for us hookers, then all those men out there who claim to be in sexless marriages, (because of their wives no longer having a libido due to menopause, -which is the most common reason given from married men that use hookers) I don’t believe all of them but I believe that it’s true for some marriages, well if they couldn’t have sex with us and they didn’t have affairs then more marriages would end in divorce because why should a man put up with having no sex just because his partner no longer wants it?!

If I felt like that and I was married then I would give my hubby the okay to pay for sex elsewhere, being a sex worker helps you understand men more and I realise that not all men pay for sex (apparently figures show 1 in 10 pay but I think it’s more likely 3/4 in 10) but men are men and men aren’t made to have sex with the one same woman for years and years, it’s just the way men are, it’s unfortunate for wives but fortunate for hookers because if all men were faithful then we would make no money!

Towards the end of my sex work then I stopped asking men if they had wives/partners because it’s not my concern and I wasn’t cheating on the woman, the paying man was.

To the ladies that are married and no longer want sex for whatever reason, then just bear in mind that you may not be fussy for sex again but you can’t expect your hubby just to be celibate too, and never mind all that he loves you stuff, men can love you and still want sex with other women.

After years of doing that job then I’ll probs be the most understanding partner/wife the next time I’m in a relationship, and I’ll allow my partner to book escorts so that we can have a 3some and it will keep him interested, I’m talking years down the line when he gets bored of sleeping with me only, and he will be bored of me eventually even if I am amazing at giving head

Oh your "job" definitely had an impact on you ... and it's not a good one.

So many myths and excuses for men, and you're already planning how far you'll go to keep a fictional man interested.

That is fucked up in so many ways, and hopefully with time,distance and healing you'll get to see it.

[quote coronaway]@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble

The thing is I don't respect those men who go on to deal drugs or steal so I'm not sure why I should automatically respect those who become prostitutes? I'm struggling to follow the line of thinking.

My main worry is the more and more normalised it becomes the more and more women will think it's an option - either freely or when they feel it's their only way out.[/quote]
Drug dealing and stealing are illegal. Prostitution isn't. That's one difference.

And respecting someone on a basic level or at least not blaming them for the world's evils/men's behaviour is not the same as normalising what they do.

I want less women to be prostituted(or be strippers,porn stars,cam girls etc),not more. Not because I think they're awful people, but because it's such a dangerous,soul destroying, abusive environment/life .

@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble with therapy or not then I’ll still be that type of woman because I don’t want hurt so my man (when I get him) will eventually get bored of me and rather him cheat on me, then I’ll allow him to have sex with another woman, that’s nothing to do with me needing therapy, that’s me being wide to how men’s minds work!

My old job has obviously impacted me but both good and badly, and that’s for me to worry about, I would rather know what men are all about than be like the naive wives who don’t think their man has ever slept with another woman, when he probs has numerous time’s, some men actually don’t see paying for sex as cheating, I find this BS of course but that’s what they told me!

@Inappropriatefemale thanks for your candour.

I'd argue a couple should get divorced if one decides to withhold sex but I appreciate everyone has different views.

You could argue that the potential to earn a lot through prostitution is partly due to the public's lack of respect for it and if this changed it wouldn't be so lucrative as supply would increase - something that I'm worried about happening.

@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble I'd argue the fact it is legal leads more people to choose to do it over say drug dealing or stealing.

Again I want to make it clear I'm referring to those who freely choose to do it, not those who are trafficked who need all the support they can get.

Criminalise the punters, if you want it illegal.

Criminalising the women ( and men, girls and boys) who are selling leads to really awful treatment of people who are often already in a really difficult, vulnerable position.

Annoyingly there is only an approximate number for prostitutes, while no one seems to have ever counted the drug dealers.

But considering around 700 were arrested in one county lines operation, there's plenty of them.

I guess it would be quite tricky to prove people were doing something illegal as you would have to prove money had changed hands (or gifts even).

Nevertheless I still believe if it was illegal more people would give it a second thought before going through with it.

Your thread title is massively offensive. And I don’t actually think your late-coming to feminism is all that successful if you think now I'm supposed to feel they're just women (or men) choosing this way to make their living unless of course you are following the feminism that centres men. Who chooses for female bodies to be used in this way? It’s men isn’t it?

@coronaway actually so many men that pay actually do think paying for it is illegal and that’s what they get off on, when I informed one man that what we were doing was perfectly legal then he looked so disappointed!

Some straight living type men (conventional men) follow the rules their whole lives and have never had a parking ticket before so they think they’re being rebellious/naughty by paying for sex! Pathetic but true, but then most men that pay for sex are indeed pretty pathetic!