For those who have kids at university - wokedom

[Teal99]

I have no kids, never went to uni - but where I work there are of young graduates who all seem to be totally on board with the trans woman is a woman concept, using pronouns and all manner of wokedom. They all seem like one group who all say the same things, think the same way....

Just for curiosity, if you have children at uni, or just graduated - are there people in this age group who think differently, even if they don't publicly express to their peers/friends that they don't agree with them? I think there must be some individual thought, which must be hard if they want to fit in/not be ostracised.

I think I just want a bit of hope that this period of madness will pass by and people will start to push back against a lot of wokedom. Or is the toothpaste too far out of the tube?

[quote RedtreesRedtrees]@apollo440 last time I commented against the accepted GC viewpoint I was amazed how many DMs I received from other Mumsnetters who also disagree with the GC perspective but are too fearful to post themselves. I guess it’s not just TRAs who are bullies 🤷‍♀️[/quote]
Yes, of course that happened. “Fearful” to post on an anonymous board, indeed.

last time I commented against the accepted GC viewpoint I was amazed how many DMs I received from other Mumsnetters who also disagree with the GC perspective but are too fearful to post themselves. I guess it’s not just TRAs who are bullies

So a few MN's are "too fearful" to post on an anonymous forum because others have different opinions and their arguments, like the belief in gender ideology, can't hold up against any critical thinking, logic or biological fact and can't see the damage it's doing to females across the globe?

Meanwhile, GC females outside of the internet bubble are regularly threatened with rape, death, unemployment, doxxed, etc etc and have reason to be ACTUAL fearful. Not just being afraid of hurty feelings.

Woke = mistaken.

@RedtreesRedtrees

I notice how many pps use the word ‘woke’ as an insult but I haven’t seen anyone define what they mean (and I know how keen you all are on definitions). So I’ll start with this from a popular online dictionary: “having or marked by an active awareness of systemic injustices and prejudices, especially those related to civil and human rights.” Based on this I’m happy to self define as woke.

You’re right, the term “woke” definitely doesn’t cover the bullying, doxxing, cancelling culture we’re seeing from people who believe, as the sadly-missed LangCleg once posted, that you can identify into a group protected under the Equality Act 2010 simply by changing your name on your gas bill.

We need to come up with another word.

And in answer to the OP, DS (22) and studying Psychology, hasn’t bought into it either.

@RedtreesRedtrees

I notice how many pps use the word ‘woke’ as an insult but I haven’t seen anyone define what they mean (and I know how keen you all are on definitions). So I’ll start with this from a popular online dictionary: “having or marked by an active awareness of systemic injustices and prejudices, especially those related to civil and human rights.” Based on this I’m happy to self define as woke.

Interesting that you are happy to accept the dictionary definition of 'woke'.

@Portnlemon that’s just nonsense

No I’m accepting a definition of woke. I’m asking what yours is.

How are you with the dictionary definition of woman = adult human female, Redtrees?

I have DD heading to uni this year, hopefully. She is fortunately GC - attendance at a WPUK at an impressionable age . She gets pissed off about the inconsistencies especially as she has disabilities that her peers haven’t jumped up and down to be supportive about. She points out that the workerati were and still are ignoring the classmate with Sen stuck at the back of the room. So she’ll speak up about that.
But I think her generation her turning against the one above and being more questioning. From what she shows me her lot have worked out sex and gender are different.

I think NewandImproved is correct. As a student I would have insisted the earth was flat before I conceded my parents might be right about anything. And the more rational they were, the angrier I would have got and the deeper I would have doubled down.

I'm sorry I have no solutions - I think I just got lucky with my son - but I don't think logic and facts are likely to win them over in this instance. I think time, plus a dose of hopefully not too harsh reality will do the job better than we can. Plus there's already a new generation coming up behind them who will soon be shouldering them and their tired old ideas out of the way.

So there’s a couple of suggestions so far. We have the dictionary definition, but also the word obviously means different things to different people and is used differently in different contexts 🤔

So not allowing any adult males into female only spaces is a systemic injustice?

No, but removing the very language females use to describe themselves, our safe spaces, sport etc etc very much is.

She gets pissed off about the inconsistencies especially as she has disabilities that her peers haven’t jumped up and down to be supportive about

Agree. I commented on the Lush poster thread that it was interesting how they state their opposition to racism, transphobia and homophobia from the rooftops but not a peep about ageism or disablism.

[quote RedtreesRedtrees]@Portnlemon that’s just nonsense[/quote]
Really? Explain how.

My autistic DD is completely gc. She gave a speech on Sunday at the rally in Edinburgh, about the risks to autistic girls of being sterilised and damaged by trans clinics like the Tavistock rushing to “affirm” them as trans and starting hormones without adequate assessment that their autism might be the real and only reason that they feel they don’t fit rigid gender stereotypes.
She campaigns actively with ForWomenScotland for women’s rights to safe spaces, privacy and dignity, and the right to women only sports. As an old school radfem I’m hugely proud of her.

She is not in the least transphobic (idiotic word) and would support any campaign for third spaces for them, or a separate sporting category at the Olympics for example. We both get angry when TRAs label any defence of women’s rights as some sort of hate fuelled attack on them. I can’t recall any feminist ever punching a TRA - but there have been convictions for the reverse.

@RedtreesRedtrees

So there’s a couple of suggestions so far. We have the dictionary definition, but also the word obviously means different things to different people and is used differently in different contexts 🤔

Which definition of “woman” do you go for then?

I have hope that those now in their teens and younger will be more questioning.
Sorry Daisies but my 14 year old has bought into it. They've got an LGBTQ+ club at school, at least one child in their year who is T and the pastoral lead has a flyer from a well known group on their office wall.

@Babdoc

My autistic DD is completely gc. She gave a speech on Sunday at the rally in Edinburgh, about the risks to autistic girls of being sterilised and damaged by trans clinics like the Tavistock rushing to “affirm” them as trans and starting hormones without adequate assessment that their autism might be the real and only reason that they feel they don’t fit rigid gender stereotypes. She campaigns actively with ForWomenScotland for women’s rights to safe spaces, privacy and dignity, and the right to women only sports. As an old school radfem I’m hugely proud of her. She is not in the least transphobic (idiotic word) and would support any campaign for third spaces for them, or a separate sporting category at the Olympics for example. We both get angry when TRAs label any defence of women’s rights as some sort of hate fuelled attack on them. I can’t recall any feminist ever punching a TRA - but there have been convictions for the reverse.

She sounds amazing and well-informed, Babdoc. You must be so proud of her for doing her research and putting her money where her mouth is.

What is the correlation between those subscribing to 'woke' culture and those same folk belonging to the humanities department?

i am part of that generation and have no time for it all. lots of my peers shot me down in flames when i admitted that i actually agree with JK rowling. it's a load of bolocks. obviously 'trans women' shouldn;t be participating in womens sport or using female changing rooms. it is an absolute and utter farce. unfortunaely op i am in the minority amongst ppl of my age. x

My DC think it's nonsense (but only say so in private).

Mine are genderists, unfortunately. They are also anti-white and ageist. One has qualms about transwomen being 'lesbians'.
I didn't bring them up to reject material reality. Peer and online influence is really strong.

I'd like to know the qualities/experiences/environments young people who are free thinkers on these topics have in common. There must be factors that protect young adults from group think.

@DillonPanthersTexas

What is the correlation between those subscribing to 'woke' culture and those same folk belonging to the humanities department?

High. Even higher in the social sciences.

Non-woke son about to go to university to read Human Social and Political Science. He is a bit depressed by the constraints on academic freedom and worried about falling foul of the woke police.