For those who have kids at university - wokedom

[Teal99]

I have no kids, never went to uni - but where I work there are of young graduates who all seem to be totally on board with the trans woman is a woman concept, using pronouns and all manner of wokedom. They all seem like one group who all say the same things, think the same way....

Just for curiosity, if you have children at uni, or just graduated - are there people in this age group who think differently, even if they don't publicly express to their peers/friends that they don't agree with them? I think there must be some individual thought, which must be hard if they want to fit in/not be ostracised.

I think I just want a bit of hope that this period of madness will pass by and people will start to push back against a lot of wokedom. Or is the toothpaste too far out of the tube?

@aprilfools19

Are you one of those "you're all mean women because you won't accept men in your definition of women" people?

Goodness me. There is absolutely no way you can write this and still genuinely ask “what do you find shocking?

You all seem to really love trying to goad people to the point of biting well sorry to disappoint. I can see why you chose to gather in this little corner of the internet though as you’d surely be kicked out of any of the feminist groups I’ve ever been a part of on Facebook.

@aprilfools19 I am on at least five feminist Facebook groups which discuss most of the same issues we discuss here, with the very same attitude as can be found on this thread. So I don't what you are talking about, or what has you so shocked.

Perhaps you define yourself as lib-feminist? Then yes, you would find the rad-feminist discussions perhaps not to your liking. But we just don't know. Unless you specifically say what has shocked you so much, you're really not adding to the conversation and your "shock-horror" reaction doesn't mean anything to anyone.

I think one of the things @aprilfools19 is overlooking (love the name btw, very goady btw) is that the word “shocking” could be interpreted in different ways. He/she could be shocked that many of us centre women in our feminism. That we have concerns about thought policing and safeguarding. Or he/she could be shocked as she/he has never considered these points before and is quite overwhelmed to view things in a new way. Impossible to say as she/he is revelling in the mystery of it all.

But yes, very much invoke Bunbury.

My ds is still sticking to twaw and I wonder if having to do lectures online and so having little exposure to women his own age (apart from current friends and gf who are not gender critical) will mean he’s unlikely to shift? Perhaps when unit’s open up fully again the discussions there can evolve.

@Ritascornershop

I think one of the things *@aprilfools19* is overlooking (love the name btw, very goady btw) is that the word “shocking” could be interpreted in different ways. He/she could be shocked that many of us centre women in our feminism. That we have concerns about thought policing and safeguarding. Or he/she could be shocked as she/he has never considered these points before and is quite overwhelmed to view things in a new way. Impossible to say as she/he is revelling in the mystery of it all.

But yes, very much invoke Bunbury.

My ds is still sticking to twaw and I wonder if having to do lectures online and so having little exposure to women his own age (apart from current friends and gf who are not gender critical) will mean he’s unlikely to shift? Perhaps when unit’s open up fully again the discussions there can evolve.

Yes. And yes to Bunbury.

Dd is completely twaw. And had a time when she thought she might like to transition herself. I don’t discuss it as it would end in tears. I turn the conversation to environmental issues, which, to my mind, are more important and dd and I can at least agree.

@RedtreesRedtrees

“ They all seem like one group who all say the same things, think the same way....”

Because the GC posters here have such diverse views

You don't need to be 'diverse' when saying that the Earth goes round the Sun, that gravity makes things fall, that fire is hot and water is wet.

It would be interesting to know how it is possible to have 'diverse views' when stating simple scientific truth. Science doesn't care what you feel.

I think all the wokeness comes from a place of ideology, a place where misogyny doesn’t exist. It’s a shame the youth can grasp the idea of oppression and privilege when it comes to BLM, but they can’t grasp it when it comes to understanding the history of how men have treated women

Totally this @BrummyMum1

You can only believe the "most oppressed in the world rhetoric" if you ignore 50% of the world's population, the majority of whom are brown and don't live in the UK, USA, or Europe.

And if you deliberately overlook the femicide, rape, and general oppression that 50% of the world's population experiences simply because they are female.

*You don't need to be 'diverse' when saying that the Earth goes round the Sun, that gravity makes things fall, that fire is hot and water is wet.

It would be interesting to know how it is possible to have 'diverse views' when stating simple scientific truth. Science doesn't care what you feel.*

Exactly. Can someone explain the science behind TWAW? As in is it a scientifically proven statement. We can prove gravity makes things fall. We can prove the different weights and densitys of various liquids & solids etc.
Where is the PROOF that TWAW? "Because i say so" is not an answer. That just makes it an opinion, not a fact.

The way JKR was treated was appalling, half of the twitterati mindlessly bleating TWAW

The proof is:

Person 1: “I define woman to mean anyone who says they are”

Trans woman: “I am a woman”

Person 1: “tada! TWAW!”

DD reported with some bemusement that one of her university lecturers tweeted that he'd voted Conservative. Some students reported him for wrongthink. No action was taken by the university, I'm pleased to say.

There does seem to be an idea that all good people believe exactly the same thing.

Since slavery has been mentioned, it's notable that many anti-slavery campaigners were motivated by strong religious convictions. Many of their other views could be considered offensive now, but it doesn't mean they were wrong about slavery.

@FWRLurker

I am a cat.

My dog is a mouse.

My hamster is a lion.

Its fucking ludicrous isnt it.

I thought I was invincible at 18. I remember my grandfather trying to tell me it wasn't safe to travel to a city near them and me completely poo-poo ing him. He was over reacting (I'd travelled to London alone and knew not to go out at night on my own) but the idea that I was more vulnerable as a young woman was just prejudice, to me.

One of the reasons I decided to train and work in the NHS after leaving school was that people would see me as a kind and caring type (only realising this decades later) - I so wish I'd done something more suited to my introverted nature.

It's ironic that this 'people are who they say they are' nonsense is the complete opposite of the safeguarding rules we tell children when they start using the internet.

Anyway, if 'people are who they say they are', they ought to listen when we say 'I am not a transphobe' and 'I am not a cis'. Do they? Do they buggery.

I really missed Glasto this year. Our young folk happy, united, liberal, inclusive, no prejudice having fun. Setting an example to old fuddy duddy bigots.
Theirs is the future. Brings a lump to my throat.

Im not a transphobe, someone i went to school with is now known by a womans name and dresses as a woman. Which is fine, live however you want. But the idea that if he commited a crime he would go to a womans prison is ludicrous. Tbf he has been gay since primary school so he is no danger to women. But as a 6foot plus quite obviously originally male (still is, he has never had surgery hence me using the he pronouns) he could intimidate women who could have had a traumatic background.

I think a better solution is having solely male / female spaces PLUS gender neutral spaces.

I have every sympathy with things that some trans people suffer. But that does not give us carte blanche to first ignore basic biology, or potentially put women in danger.

Funny how we never hear "trans men are men"....

Yes festivals are great!

Quite different to policy making about boring old prisons and things like that.

@Gottalife

I really missed Glasto this year. Our young folk happy, united, liberal, inclusive, no prejudice having fun. Setting an example to old fuddy duddy bigots. Theirs is the future. Brings a lump to my throat.

Adam's apple?

Glasto the vast majority of people are off their face on drugs and the amount of litter left is sickening.

I appreciate you can have a magical time, meet great people, & the music is good.

But please dont pretend that it contributes more to society than that.

"I really missed Glasto this year. Our young folk happy, united, liberal, inclusive, no prejudice having fun. Setting an example to old fuddy duddy bigots.
Theirs is the future. Brings a lump to my throat."

LOL. We did Glastonbury, Stonehenge, the Elephant Fair, etc, long before they were just for the rich kids paying ££££ to get in.

Haha! I was virtually at Woodstock!
Those were the days, my friend, we thought they'd never end...

Yes, we grow older and look back fondly at those carefree days. But actually, they were nothing, and we were pretty silly, stoned off our heads.

Average age of people attending Glastonbury is 39. People 21-25 make up the largest % at 18%, second highest group people aged 50-71 at 17.5%

HTH

^The proof is:
^^
^Person 1: “I define woman to mean anyone who says they are”

^Trans woman: “I am a woman”
^^
^Person 1: “tada! TWAW!”

In a nutshell.

"I really missed Glasto this year. Our young folk happy, united, liberal, inclusive, no prejudice having fun. Setting an example to old fuddy duddy bigots.

Setting an example by failing to understand basic biology? Thankfully not all "young folk" are that stupid. Though it's funny how the "liberal, inclusive, no prejudice" thing never seems to extend towards disabled people. Yeah, the inclusion you speak of is all about the poor oppressed men who want to be women isn't it? No room for actual minorities who would benefit from more inclusive attitudes.

sexual assault of women at festivals presumably by some of the liberal inclusive young people who attend.. hands up who has been sexually assaulted at a festival...p.s I used to go to festivals when you could still climb the fence

“DD reported with some bemusement that one of her university lecturers tweeted that he'd voted Conservative. Some students reported him for wrongthink. No action was taken by the university, I'm pleased to say. ”

Christ. I’m at university, and I’m a socialist with a shit load of Tory friends. They sometimes say things that make my eyes roll into the back of my head, but they are not usually the devil . I find arguing with them very enlightening actually, and I think they do too. When are people going to learn that the most productive thing to do with people you disagree with is to have a calm debate, not to bloody report them for wrong-think (which, given the nature of purity spirals, is very time and circumstance dependent)