‘Our Baby: A Modern Miracle’ C4 10pm tonight

[Haveastock]

The story of Jake Graf and Hannah Winterbourne’s surrogacy journey. They’re the photogenic transgender power couple who are patrons of Mermaid.

Their surrogate was an Irish woman and I followed Jake on Instagram during the whole drama of the birth happening amidst a pandemic. I actually shed a tear when I saw a photo of the baby in their arms and thought about a nameless woman in the background having to deal with the post-birth pain and bleeding without a baby to hold.

I’ve just watched a trailer where Jake said they were hoping for a boy first (they used their own eggs and donor sperm) as they knew how to handle boys - throw them around, be boisterous etc. and werevmore familiar with that then girls who, as far as they were concerned mainly played with glitter and dolls!!! Yes, they laughingly admitted they’re were as prone to gender stereotypes as the next man, woman etc.! How we laughed!?

I’m sure it will be an interesting programme and the baby is so gorgeous. As I’ve said before, I wish them all well. The baby won’t be short on love. But by championing Mermaids and their push for the affirmation model, no matter how young, Jake is indirectly encouraging a generation of young kids to start on a treatment pathway that will end up in depriving them of any chance of a biological child of their own. I find that absolutely tragic.

(Am sure they’re a bit frustrated that their programme is airing during the 48 hour Twitter blackout)

Hope no one minds me posting about it on this board. Am sure there will be a thread in Telly Addicts too. I imagine they’ll get a lot of positive feedback.

The thing is, under all surgery and pronouns, this is just a heterosexual couple.

It's not a miracle for a heterosexual couple to have a child. It's no longer a miracle for an infertile heterosexual couple to have a baby.

The only difference with these two is they gave up their fertility willingly.

And I don't think that at best, using an immoral act to conceive your child, at worst exploiting another human being to conceive your child, is anything to be celebrated. We also don't know what psychological damage removing newborns from their mothers has on them - but as a mother, I know that it must be traumatic for them.

We should actually be looking at this as a scary future. Don't worry about damaging your working body - you can just buy someone else's to fulfill your needs.

Oh yes it totally relies on parents being honest with their children @OhHolyJesus and I think that's really wrong. I haven't read it for a while but I know that a lot of women on the donor conceived boards here have decided not to tell their children they're using donor eggs.

I think that's wrong. The only reason to withhold that information is to protect yourself and actually it's not your information, it belongs to your child.

Given that Hannah and Jake's careers are founded on them being an attractive transgender couple with a child, I don't suppose there's any danger their child won't know their origins!

In that same Q&A they say that Millie with know Auntie Laura and her involvement but the Drewitt Barlows said that and I'm sure countless other couples have said the same. Some would still have the surrogate mothers in their children's lives but there is nothing to make them tell the truth.

Whilst the original birth certificate wouldn't be changed a new birth certificate is issued once the parental order is cleared so it's feasible, if the child is confused enough about biology and their origins, that they could well believe they have Hannah as the mother and Jake as their father.

It's a question of whether, because of the GRCs, that they will take the respective mother/father roles in the parental order and subsequent new BC. Regardless of this, they will be raised in that way, to see their biological mother and their father and Hannah as their mother.

I wonder if a new BC looks different or there is any indication that an original one exists somewhere?

Willingly giving up your fertility and then getting someone else to pick up the slack because you can't carry the baby yourself because of a decision that you made.... In any other arena this would be frowned upon and called 'selfish' wouldn't it?

Willfully ruining your own body and then paying someone to have a baby for you is abhorrent.

Jake comes across as a misogynistic prat, referring to Hannah as 'wifey' and ordering Hannah not to have a drink when they meet the surrogate.
Hannah comes across as very reserved. I think Hannah is the intelligent one of the couple. I can see that Jake will throw it back in Hannahs face that Hannah isn't a biological parent of the child if they ever fell out.

They had a very rapidly moving romance, I always think that doesn't bode well.

That bit when Laura said she was asked to be a surrogate for nothing (by other commissioning parents) does that mean there is some kind of payment involved? The narrator said they were paying for expenses but I don't think that's what Laura meant and I wonder this as this is under Irish law, not UK law.

I'm veering between quite rational sympathy for them - they've overcome a lot, and I'm genuinely happy for them that they've found each other - and rage about the way they constantly reinforce gender stereotypes.

"boys - you can throw them around, girls like dolls, blah blah" - just fuck off

I've observed that it often seems to be a feature of female trans people's gender behavioural expression that they will adopt many of the cultural trappings of masculine behaviour that are what might be termed in the US 'toxic masculinity'. I see it as a mirror to some of the exaggerated behaviour we can often see in male trans people.

Wow Floral nail on head, as ever, I was trying to figure out what it was that makes Jake appear masculine.

I'm not entirely sure someone with a self confessed alcohol problem and severe dysphoria, whose relationship with their parents broke down will make a great parent.

One minute talking about how different boys and girls are - boys are rough and tumble, girls are dolls and glitter - then saying that the nursery will be painted grey, nice and gender neutral. The colour of the nursery isn't going to make a difference with those raging gender stereotypes going on!

Heartbroken for Laura

I've actually warmed to Hannah - speaking openly about male puberty and the undeniable physical effects it has. Doesn't seem to be a biology-denier.

I'm watching this and find myself uncomfortable not with the trans aspect but with the surrogacy. 'We need somebody to cook our baby.' 'She's not the mother, the mother is out here in the carpark' etc.

*will the baby latch on to her breast? That would be awful". Would it really be the worst thing? It would actually be a good thing for the baby. I'm not warming to Jake.

Me too NotTerf The trans element is important when it comes to biology and genetics obvs but the surrogacy part.
Laura holding back tears and then crying.

She must still have been in the hospital when they were on the plane.

It seems so heartless.

Laura has to go back to her kids and function. £15k on expenses (?!) and job done. Single mum. She will probably do it again.

I hope they stay in touch properly but who knows, you get swept up in a newborn and Hannah wants to occupy the role of the mother. I don't know. I'm not convinced.

I like Hannah, Jake not so much. Why was Jake taking the lead with the baby? Surely it should have been Hannah, the mother, who held the baby first .. especially considering she already felt like an outsider during the process. Insensitive.

'We need somebody to cook our baby.' 'She's not the mother, the mother is out here in the carpark' etc.

Are these direct quotes? Bloody hell - we might as well just call the surrogate Ofjake.

I actually found them more likeable than i thought I would, especially Hannah.
I hope Laura is ok.
It looked like Jake was taking the lead, first hold, pushing the pram off in front, I can imagine Hannah feeling pushed out like she did at the beginning.
I think she might find it quite hard, its a unique situation to be in.

Poor little baby denied the opportunity to do that most instinctual thing and latch on to the only familiar human with all the comfort that would bring. It's just really cruel - even animals we have as pets are allowed to spend some days / weeks after birth with their mother (and it's acknowledged that if they're removed too soon it can cause behavioural problems).

Just out of interest and yes I could Google, who is listed as the mother on the birth certificate in cases of surrogacy? It's the birth mother, isn't it?

@AltheaThoon

*will the baby latch on to her breast? That would be awful". Would it really be the worst thing? It would actually be a good thing for the baby. I'm not warming to Jake.

Jake has done themselves no favours here. Hannah's not going to stay with him long term, Hannah will be crushed by Jake.

I felt sympathy for Jake. Jake had all the instincts of a natural mother. Jake is the mother.