‘Our Baby: A Modern Miracle’ C4 10pm tonight

[Haveastock]

The story of Jake Graf and Hannah Winterbourne’s surrogacy journey. They’re the photogenic transgender power couple who are patrons of Mermaid.

Their surrogate was an Irish woman and I followed Jake on Instagram during the whole drama of the birth happening amidst a pandemic. I actually shed a tear when I saw a photo of the baby in their arms and thought about a nameless woman in the background having to deal with the post-birth pain and bleeding without a baby to hold.

I’ve just watched a trailer where Jake said they were hoping for a boy first (they used their own eggs and donor sperm) as they knew how to handle boys - throw them around, be boisterous etc. and werevmore familiar with that then girls who, as far as they were concerned mainly played with glitter and dolls!!! Yes, they laughingly admitted they’re were as prone to gender stereotypes as the next man, woman etc.! How we laughed!?

I’m sure it will be an interesting programme and the baby is so gorgeous. As I’ve said before, I wish them all well. The baby won’t be short on love. But by championing Mermaids and their push for the affirmation model, no matter how young, Jake is indirectly encouraging a generation of young kids to start on a treatment pathway that will end up in depriving them of any chance of a biological child of their own. I find that absolutely tragic.

(Am sure they’re a bit frustrated that their programme is airing during the 48 hour Twitter blackout)

Hope no one minds me posting about it on this board. Am sure there will be a thread in Telly Addicts too. I imagine they’ll get a lot of positive feedback.

I don't really get the title of the program?

A male and a female individual donated eggs and sperm and used a surrogate to carry their baby to term. Its been done for years, how is that a miracle? Its not exactly an immaculate conception is it?

Honestly, they re-label everything to sound super special and unique.

@FloralBunting

Yeah, miracle is now an elastic term that apparently includes renting out women's bodies so you can get a child to imprint your sexist values on. Wouldn't call it modern though. Misogyny is pretty traditional stuff.

Yes, "miracle" my arse!!

I have two Dcs conceived by sperm donation. I don’t mind hearing views. Certainly not on this board which is always respectful. I chose an ID release donor so in theory the DCs can find out his identity but in reality we don’t know what will be possible when the time comes if he doesn’t want to be found. I would have gone further with fertility options if I had had to but I must say this board had opened my eyes on some of the issues around surrogacy so perhaps I would not do it now.

I agree with Wolfgrrl as well. I don’t think being loved is enough. I think when the sole purpose of your creation is akin to a vanity project: your mum used to be a man and your dad used to be a woman, when you have two parents AND a sperm donor AND a surrogate mother (did they use donor eggs too, or was the surrogate the biological mother?). None of that is good for the child. We all know that adopted children and children born from donor eggs/sperm can experience trauma and identity issues. Well, this child is going to experience all that and more.

Gives I think the super special bit is that before Jake transistioned, their eggs were harvested and used a sperm donor. The embryos were then frozen.

Later Jake and Hannah became a couple and a surrogate was used.

So Jake is biologically the mother, (egg) but Laura will legally be the child's mother and then Hannah and Jake will be "mum and dad"

This is the bit in the TV paper.

Sound more like modern slavery than a modern miracle.

Does anyone else find it strange that Jake has the eggs fertilised with a sperm donor, so fully expecting to not meet a partner who would provide sperm to fertilise them, so perhaps is attracted to women and froze embryos, not eggs, in the hope that Jake would meet a woman who would be implanted?

Maybe I'm over thinking it. Hannah made no such plan to freeze sperm but it turned out Jake had embryos on ice and not eggs and they had a willing womb do it all turned out for them didn't it? I hope Laura is ok.

I think sperm freezes/defrosts quite well but eggs, as well as not “harvesting” easily, don’t? So freezing embryos is an oft recommended option?

How is this all recorded on the baby's birth certificate?

Didn't someone say that Hannah didn't have sperm frozen because they had no desire to be a parent? And now they have always wanted to be parents.

More here

www.channel4.com/press/news/our-baby-modern-miracle-q-and-hannah-and-jake-graf-0

Hannah, you talk very openly about feeling insecure or inadequate as a woman who so wants to carry her own baby but cannot. Why did you want to speak openly about this?

Understandably, society sees carrying and giving birth to a child as one of the most intrinsic parts of womanhood and so being unable to do so can feel like your very identity is under threat. As a transgender woman I feel this very keenly as I am already frequently confronted by individuals who want to invalidate my identity, but the truth of the matter is that there are a plethora of reasons for women not being able to carry their own children who suffer the same shame and invalidation from the expectations of society. I hope that by being open with my experience, it might resonate with other women and perhaps give them some hope that you can still be a mother, regardless of how the child is brought into the world.

Both people made their transitions and each made decisions about “fertility preservation” before meeting each other.

How is this all recorded on the baby's birth certificate?

Good question, the sperm donor will need to be named as the father I think as all children conceived via donors are meant to be able to find their biological parents...and Laura as the mother until this is change via a parental order where Laura relinquishes parental responsibility.

This could be complex though as Hannah will want to be named as the mother and Jake the father in the parental order but this hasn't happened in U.K. law before and you can only have a parental order if one parent is biologically related, so that would be Jake as it was Jake's eggs and so that would make Jake the biological mother.

This will be a Freddie McConnelly type case. I do believe Andrew Spearman, Freddie's lawyer will be busy!

Parental orders haven't been challenged in this way before...

Oh holy

It is so manipulative for Hannah to compare themself to an infertile women.

The sperm donor isn't recorded as the father OhHoly. Laura will be the baby's mother and father will be left blank. At some point, make and Hannah will have to apply for a parental order at which point the original birth certificate is sealed.

Hannah and Jake will have the ultimate decision whether to tell their child their biological origins. If their sperm donor was in the U.K., their child will be able to contact him when they're 18. If the donor was outside the uk, that isn't possible.

Make? Jake!

And yes, interesting point about who will be mother and who will be father. As they have GRCs, I assume they will go down as Hannah as mother and Jake as father because the child's actual birth mother will be on the original birth certificate.

The is Clymene I didn't realise that the fathers name could be blank, with donors that makes sense but it also relies on the parents, any parents, not just Jake and Hannah, telling the child the truth.

Donors in the U.K. are all registered so whoever provided the sperm from when Jake fertilised the eggs would be registered somewhere. He, the donor, is the biological father and Millie has a right (UN convention of the rights of the child) to know her parentage.

They may be legally recognised in their 'acquired gender' but I'm not sure how that goes for parental orders.

With MCConnell we know that it is a challenge to the naming of the mother on the BC.

I do hope they are totally open with this child about how it came into being.

And I think that Hannah comparing herself to an infertile woman is a manipulative false equivalence, but we have seen it many times before.

I’ve just had to stop myself from getting into a heated discussion with a midwife at work, who was talking about the different kinds of families she sees now and how amazing it all is. We are a very pc Trust so I had to not get drawn in as you never know. She said it’s great that “men” can carry babies. Christ on a bike I said don’t you mean women? She said well yes but if they identify as blokes then they are blokes. No one appart from on here gets it. The younger ones at work act like I’m some kind of ignorant old lady.

I’d as soon watch the Liberal Party conference.

Do they still have a conference?