‘Our Baby: A Modern Miracle’ C4 10pm tonight

[Haveastock]

The story of Jake Graf and Hannah Winterbourne’s surrogacy journey. They’re the photogenic transgender power couple who are patrons of Mermaid.

Their surrogate was an Irish woman and I followed Jake on Instagram during the whole drama of the birth happening amidst a pandemic. I actually shed a tear when I saw a photo of the baby in their arms and thought about a nameless woman in the background having to deal with the post-birth pain and bleeding without a baby to hold.

I’ve just watched a trailer where Jake said they were hoping for a boy first (they used their own eggs and donor sperm) as they knew how to handle boys - throw them around, be boisterous etc. and werevmore familiar with that then girls who, as far as they were concerned mainly played with glitter and dolls!!! Yes, they laughingly admitted they’re were as prone to gender stereotypes as the next man, woman etc.! How we laughed!?

I’m sure it will be an interesting programme and the baby is so gorgeous. As I’ve said before, I wish them all well. The baby won’t be short on love. But by championing Mermaids and their push for the affirmation model, no matter how young, Jake is indirectly encouraging a generation of young kids to start on a treatment pathway that will end up in depriving them of any chance of a biological child of their own. I find that absolutely tragic.

(Am sure they’re a bit frustrated that their programme is airing during the 48 hour Twitter blackout)

Hope no one minds me posting about it on this board. Am sure there will be a thread in Telly Addicts too. I imagine they’ll get a lot of positive feedback.

@Pemba

No I knew her egg wasn't fertilised by her brother.

But I found it shocking because she was handing her own baby over to her brother to raise.

I suppose when a surrogate doesn't use their own eggs, at least there is that small degree of separation that the baby isn't biologically theirs.

But in this case she is literally having her baby taken from her at birth, I just find it incredibly distasteful and cruel.

@Thisismytimetoshine

What's miraculous about this non story? When the male of the species manages to give birth all on his own, with all his male plumbing intact, that will be a miracle worthy of airtime. Not this nonsense.

When transwomen who have entered women's sport claim that the women who are getting trounced by them ought to just "work harder" I always think this argument should be levelled back at them when it comes to giving birth. "Just try harder! Don't use a surrogate, just work harder at conceiving and gestating a fetus yourself. Oh, you can't? Why's that then? Does biology count in some cases perhaps?"

also not having to consider the strain on you're own body, why not keep churning them out.

They just treat surrogate mothers like a baby factory. I find it even more shocking that the fertility clinics encourage and facilitate this - surely they understand a bit about obstetrics and the risks to the mother and by default risks to the baby if the mother's health is compromised?
And some women do find it addictive - there's a lot of psychological issues that come into play. This is why, if we are to have legal surrogacy in the UK, women should be limited to no more than two (which allows for a sibling). Making it a career should not be an option. Though I predict Laura will be. Career surrogate mother.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/pressure-to-have-multiple-babies-putting-surrogates-at-risk-1.5459957

Career surrogacy. More 🚩 than a bunting factory. Shame on the fertility clinics that facilitate this.

abcnews.go.com/Health/biggest-surrogate-mom-jill-hawkins-pregnant-9th-10th/story?id=15803413

I had never thought of that point Collidascope. The ‘just try harder’ argument is purest bullshit and you’ve shown that up beautifully here.

No person who is GC would ever say ‘just try harder‘ to anyone else about something physical because our view is rooted in biological reality.

But surely the genderists who use that argument do then need to apply ‘just try harder’ to themselves about other biological features? That’s assuming that they actually believe it of course. Which they must do, to compete in good faith with women athletes in women-only competitions. Biological limitations are just a choice.

So, those who take that view, should consistently take it, in any situation relevant to their natural, sexed physical body.

So that should include all the situations in which genderists are not ‘winning’ something, or are not coming out on top in some way, because of the natural sexed physical body that they already possess.

Otherwise that ‘try harder’ argument looks like sailing embarrassingly close to hypocrisy and self-serving individualism at the expense of others (usually women), doesn’t it..

Talking for the need to rapidly have more surrogate children, I know Michael from TwoDads has said he wants a third. I'm sure their surrogate mother Caroline will oblige.

I wonder where it comes from? The surrogate mother getting older, the ageing embryos on ice, them ageing themselves.

As you say Fanny surrogacy shouldn't be a career choice. People forget how dangerous pregnancy still is. I hope Laura doesn't feel she has to do it again, and that if she wants to it's not because of the money. She's only in her 30s! I also really hope she isn't pressured to do it before she has fully recovered. The author of Unexpected Mother was starting contracts (US) and treatment 3 months after the son was sold to the couple, they later split and she was left with twins (it was triplets really but they chose to kill one in the womb by fatal injection).

Well her egg was fertilized by her brother's partner's sperm, not by her brother's sperm. Which would be incestuous and genetically inadvisable of course. Did you misread?

@Pemba I understood what Wolfgrrl was getting at, and it’s - as ever - the baby that is forgotten about.

Her “auntie” is really her mother
One of her dads is really her uncle
Her “cousin” is really a half sibling

Will she ever miss having a mother figure, and wonder why she was conceived to be given away?

It’s telling that it was also a money saving exercise - can’t afford adoption or to pay a surrogate? Inseminate your sister in law at home for free!

I’m sure they’re all lovely people and it was done with the best of intentions, but the child and their feelings/identity always comes last.

Her “auntie” is really her mother
One of her dads is really her uncle
Her “cousin” is really a half sibling

It's a bit eastenders isn't it.

How will the child feel knowing mummy gave them away. No matter how much your uncle and dad loved you. You would always feel that your the one that mummy gave away, she must not have loved you enough. If you were more lovable maybe she would have kept you.

can’t afford adoption or to pay a surrogate? Inseminate your sister in law at home for free!

This it the issue, there is no 'good type' of surrogacy. Commercial surrogacy is open to financial abuse, and 'altruistic' surrogacy is open to emotional abuse.

This it the issue, there is no 'good type' of surrogacy. Commercial surrogacy is open to financial abuse, and 'altruistic' surrogacy is open to emotional abuse.

Exactly no matter how its done, there is always going to be someone coming out damaged, hurt or exploited. If not the mother, the child or females as a whole.

I started a new thread for this but could have just left it here...an altruistic surrogate mother who is carrying a baby for her sister, having previously had twins for money.

Her sister and BIL don't want her to kiss her boyfriend for fear of the baby catching something...

Surrogacy Contracts - YouTube video - US www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3986438-surrogacy-contracts-youtube-video-us

As the Graf's announced a while ago that they intend to have another child via surrogacy I had a dig around Instagram and found this.

I take exception to Hannah's statement here

1. Not all women can have children and it isn't a 'core thing' that people expect women to do (sort of weird to think that this is what women are for, lots of women can't or don't want to.)
2. Being the odd one out in a room full of pregnant women would be down to obvious reasons..."I'm a woman who can't give birth"
3. "There are lots of different ways to have children", well there's only really one way to have a child, though there are several ways to get a child.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQ-52Zpj8lZ/?utmmedium=copyy_link