Fully outed myself as GC at woke workplace

[McDuffy]

It might be stupid in this job climate but I'm reasonably senior and I've just commented on someone's intranet post on why they've put pronouns in their bio and why it's a nice thing to do with a (softened, for me) counter argument (three, actually).
I'm feeling a bit trembly but courage calls to courage. I don't add much original thought here but I learn so much (though I'm good for a Times share token ) so thanks for making me feel I'm not alone.

As a matter of curious it's, what (if) would you do about an employee who addressed an email to a mixed sex group (people known to him, no ambiguities) as 'Dear Gents', redtrees?

I don't hold with this pronoun bollocks myself of course, but lots of people say this:

... It is rude to refer to anyone present (in person or virtually) by a pronoun rather than by their name..

...and it's just not true, you'd say the name first but thereafter you'd use pronouns otherwise you'd sound like a complete moron.

Example:

Karen asked me the time the other day and when I told Karen, Karen said Karen was late for Karen's appointment with Karen's dentist.

I've never heard anyone talk that way (until I came here and learned that's what you have to do if you don't want to call Lily fucking Madman 'her' or 'she'...)

Further to the earlier explanation of GC - 'gender critical', imo, is primarily about the rejection of gender stereotypes, which are deleterious to many people, regardless of their sex. It's about not imposing these old fashioned restrictions on children (so, generates campaigns such as Let Toys be Toys, to choose an example which originated in an MN thread) and is supportive of people who don't conform to those stereotypes.

I'm not sure what about that constitutes 'bullshit' worthy of sacking.

Redtrees - just to be clear, which specific beliefs would someone have to state to cause you to sack them?

Please can you give specific examples? I can then identify whether it's a belief I hold and whether you would be lawful or discriminatory in sacking someone for it.

I'm always surprised when people claim to have the authority to sack people, and then demonstrate they are clueless about employment or equality law.

I mean, people have said this about Muslims, homosexuals, and other minority groups: "Nope they’d be free to seek employment elsewhere. I just won’t have them in my company."

Nope they’d be free to seek employment elsewhere. I just won’t have them in my company

It’s amazing how this has been posted right after one posted berated another for saying she’d be sacked and demanded the policy.

There’s no policy FFS. You’re not officially sacked for being GC. But if they want you gone, you’ll be gone.
You’ll be sacked for any of the minor transgressions you do. They’ll build a case on you, and any error you make. They’ll create a hostile work environment, never stepping over the line, but tip toeing it.
Seeing as nobodies perfect, you’ll make definitely make a mistake at one point, and you’ll be out. If you don’t quit first.

Of course they don’t have ‘a policy’

I don’t know whether people are wilfully naive or disingenuous or what

Interesting. As if to demonstrate that there definitely is a culture of attempting to silence women who talk about their rights and want to protect them, a cheery enforcer turns up on the thread to underline it with not so subtle threats.

Bishop I think a fairer comparison would be bigots, racists and homophobes. I won’t have them in my company either and I’d happily see them at a tribunal.

Reminds me of that meme
‘Nice little job you have there.
Would be a pity if anything were to happen to it’

@RedtreesRedtrees Would you let a trans woman use your breastfeeding room? Or do you not have a breastfeeding room?

Bishop I think a fairer comparison would be bigots, racists and homophobes. I won’t have them in my company either and I’d happily see them at a tribunal

I suspect going forward you may well end up in court quite a bit, then.
It is you who sounds utterly bigoted. The big blind spot in your assumption of moral superiority.

You do realise that if you were not trying to enforce 'right think' and were respecting of the rights of women and girls, you could could put some time and energy into campaigning for third spaces.

Enforcing an ideology, under threat of expulsion. onto a whole workforce is not progressive. It does not resemble anything to do with good manners or respect. Try experimenting with your authoritarian sentiments but apply it to groups other than to women, see how you go with that?

Redtrees, Comparing GC views that are based on science to racism now are we?
So you want to play that game?
As it's mostly women who are GC (because we know sex is real because we suffer because if it). I'd say your company hates women.

@RedtreesRedtrees Would you let a trans woman use your breastfeeding room? Or do you not have a breastfeeding room

Surely you mean a chest feeding room? Mind your language!

@RedtreesRedtrees

Bishop I think a fairer comparison would be bigots, racists and homophobes. I won’t have them in my company either and I’d happily see them at a tribunal.

Women who want rights are compared to bigots, racists and homophobes. No. If I got a job at that workplace that kind of anti-woman discrimination and hatred would be stopped.

Redtrees, Comparing GC views that are based on science to racism now are we? So you want to play that game?
As it's mostly women who are GC (because we know sex is real because we suffer because if it). I'd say your company hates women

Sounds to me that redtrees is one of those who don't really recognise that women/girls/females are a distinct category of human being, with their own integrity, and needs for privacy and dignity.

And I suspect that if anyone in their company ( don't believe they are an employer, actually) demanded they be identified as black ( even if white) and so be able to partake in a particular scheme aimed at BAME employees, this 'employer' might not be quite so accommodating.

Homophobes? You mean the sort of ppl who insist that homosexual ppl are same gender attracted not same sex attracted and call gay & lesbian ppl who don’t go along with this penis or vagina fetishists? That’s always seemed pretty homophobic to me

“I'd say your company hates women.”

You sound utterly ridiculous. My company does not hate women. My top team is well over half female. There aren’t many companies of comparable size that can say this.

Women who want rights are compared to bigots, racists and homophobes. No. If I got a job at that workplace that kind of anti-woman discrimination and hatred would be stopped

But women aren't real........a woman is anyone who says they are. how can you protect the rights and spaces of a group who do not actually exist in real life......but only in the imagination?

Redtrees so: you are unable to give an example of an opinion that you would sack someone for.
Ok.

I assume you would therefore be unable to include this in any employment policy.

You sound utterly ridiculous. My company does not hate women. My top team is well over half female. There aren’t many companies of comparable size that can say this

And you sound totally confused. What do you mean that your top team is almost half female? What is a female?

You sound utterly ridiculous. My company does not hate women. My top team is well over half female. There aren’t many companies of comparable size that can say this

And why do you think that having so many 'females' in your team is progressive? Why would that make you progressive?

Redtrees, on one hand acknowledges that women exist, and that a woman is female, and also congratulates themselves on employing so many of them in senior roles.........and yet, at the same time, is quite prepared to ride roughshod over their needs for the privacy and dignity and integrity of their sex.

Sounds like a very shallow version of equality to me. totally superficial and without roots in any deeper understanding of the condition of the female sex.

@RedtreesRedtrees

Bishop I think a fairer comparison would be bigots, racists and homophobes. I won’t have them in my company either and I’d happily see them at a tribunal.

So using your examples, what 'ism' would your employees be guilty of that would warrant dismissal if they believe that women are adult human females? I'd happily see you at tribunal for dismissing me for stating biological FACT.

@RedtreesRedtrees

“I'd say your company hates women.”

You sound utterly ridiculous. My company does not hate women. My top team is well over half female. There aren’t many companies of comparable size that can say this.

How do you know they are female? And would you count Dave from accounts in that female tally simply because he said he was female?