Fully outed myself as GC at woke workplace

[McDuffy]

It might be stupid in this job climate but I'm reasonably senior and I've just commented on someone's intranet post on why they've put pronouns in their bio and why it's a nice thing to do with a (softened, for me) counter argument (three, actually).
I'm feeling a bit trembly but courage calls to courage. I don't add much original thought here but I learn so much (though I'm good for a Times share token ) so thanks for making me feel I'm not alone.

Of myself and my colleagues I’d say we are strong women leading in a very male dominated sector.

But that still means nothing unless you explain your definition of woman. If you’re going purely by gender it would be entirely possible to have a group of ‘strong women’ with XY chromosomes and penises.

I am so proud of you, OP. I am sending virtual bouquets. I am sure that there are people in your workplace who think you are an angel, and that other people are getting their eyes opened by you. You are right--courage matters.

It seems to me that the underlying theme here is an inability to accept that we don’t all accept the GC perspective

No! the underlying theme is that you seem not to not accept that there are differences between males and females; between men and women. You do not accept the reality of biology, and so you do not recognise the specific vulnerabilities of the female sex in certain circumstances.

And on top of that you want to enforce the ideology that 'gender' is more real than biology onto everyone else, whether they like it or not; and in the face of scientific & material reality.

Some posters have railed against an apparent uniformity of thought in the company, but can you not see the uniformity evidenced by posters across these threads

What you are calling uniformity of thought, is the awareness that biology is real; that biology matters; that sex is real and has consequences; and that women don't feel comfortable with males, especially strange males, in their intimate spaces.

They read like you’re brainwashed

The irony!

The whole world, from time immemorial, and the scientific community must be brainwashed too.

It is you who is brainwashed...into accepting that people can change sex; and even that sex is not real in the first instance. Furthermore you have been brainwashed into accepting that gender identities are something more substantial than an individual response to, and a struggle with gender stereotypes.

There is a reason that most FTM trans identified people are lesbians, and only start identifying in this way once they reach puberty. ROGD ( rapid onset gender dysphoria). There is no equivalent of the late transitioning, heterosexual, cross dressing woman.

@RedtreesRedtrees

“Yes, because the punishment for 'wrong think' would be 30 years in the gulag”

Nope they’d be free to seek employment elsewhere. I just won’t have them in my company.

So inclusive. Much tolerance.

We will clearly not agree on this

Oh, you can take that to the bank. HUN!

Of myself and my colleagues I’d say we are strong women leading in a very male dominated sector. We’re not repressed or subjugated and we do not spend our time agitating, spreading fear and slaying imaginary dragons

Most of us here are very strong women too. I certainly don't live my life feeling subjugated and victimised; but I do know the difference between male and female, as it it is instinctively registered, and besides you can hardly miss the obvious differences.

I also know that women require single spaces and sports for obvious reasons....and that young girls also have a right to the have the privacy and dignity of their sex.

What makes me a woman is my body; my biology...and everything that stems from that. Performing gender roles or wearing a skirt is not what makes me a woman, even if I do like to wear skirts.

Does anybody know a heterosexual male that would seriously see no difference between dating a woman and a transwoman?

Does anyone know a heterosexual woman who would see no difference between dating a man and a transman?

The last time I got lucky after a wild night, it would have ended 'unpleasantly' if we'd got back to this hotel room and I'd discovered that he was anything other than male!

@NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace

I think women would be a bit more open to the idea, at least I know/have come across several women dating transmen. Apparently women are more 'bisexual' than men are.

But I do not know any man that would even consider dating a transwoman.

[quote Wolfgirrl]@NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace

I think women would be a bit more open to the idea, at least I know/have come across several women dating transmen. Apparently women are more 'bisexual' than men are.

But I do not know any man that would even consider dating a transwoman.[/quote]
That would simply indicate that women are possibly more likely to be bisexual than men. (Dunno if that's true but let's suppose for the sake of argument it is). It doesn't mean straight women would be okay with a a transman.

I'm straight. I do cock, not vulva. In fact I would be totally squicked out at the thought of touching another woman's vulva in a sexual context.

In the case of the younger me, if I'd been so drunk I didn't notice that the androgynous person I was chatting up was in fact a woman (an unlikely scenario in the extreme, but let's suppose I was that drunk), if we got back to mine and the pants came off to reveal vulva... it would be a "hell no!" from me.

I think women would be a bit more open to the idea, at least I know/have come across several women dating transmen. Apparently women are more 'bisexual' than men are.

This one definitely isn't. I'm the straightest of straight women and the thought of intimacy with a female is a deeply unpalatable thought – for me, personally

And yet, I live my life in Doc Marts, shave my head to number zero and spend my Saturdays down the footie. So it's a commonly held assumption amongst strangers that I'm a lesbian. I've had people argue with me: 'Oh, you MUST be'. Well, no actually.

Best grow my hair and pop on a pretty frock, eh? And be thankful I grew up in the 70s and 80s. Had I been a child of today, Mermaids would have recommended pumping me full of hormones and turning me into a boy

@DianasLasso

Thank you. I cross posted with you but I'm extremely relieved to know that I'm not the only one

@RedtreesRedtrees

It seems to me that the underlying theme here is an inability to accept that we don’t all accept the GC perspective. Consequently all you can do is fall back on accusations of misogyny or that I must be a man . Of myself and my colleagues I’d say we are strong women leading in a very male dominated sector. We’re not repressed or subjugated and we do not spend our time agitating, spreading fear and slaying imaginary dragons. Some posters have railed against an apparent uniformity of thought in the company, but can you not see the uniformity evidenced by posters across these threads? They read like you’re brainwashed. I appreciate you dislike the term, but there really is unmerited hysteria in some of the posts here. I believe somebody actually took a quip about interrogation as literal fact! Some of the claims have been even more wild. We will clearly not agree on this so I will wish you the best and leave you to continue the ‘discussion’ amongst yourselves.

Oh spare us the "strong woman" trope. It is ridiculous to have to describe a normal working woman as "strong". As opposed to what? Weak women?

There's no need at all to accept the"GC" perspective. What is evidenced here is the failure of the identity perspective pushed on people who recite the nonsense script sold by charlatans like Gendered Intelligence et al. By all means be proud of falling for it, but you are the ones believing in dragons and other fantasy worlds Redtrees.

Wow ! Can’t believe the reaction this post got op! I’ve read through and must say I’ve been able to educate myself on GC cause I had no clue..... I particularly liked the ‘chest feeding room’ that’s brilliant. Redtrees I don’t understand you. I feel for you that you feel unable to openly talk about being GC at work and think somehow you will be fired for such.... as for the ‘colleague’ you know who was fired for daring to use her/their/his/it’s brain, I feel angry if there is not an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal in the pipelines.... this whole situation is so unbelievably complicated, and would have been unheard of even ten years ago. I think we need to stop celebrating bame and LGBTQ’s and black history month and all the other things we draw attention to by doing such. Even. Elevating these ‘things’ is divisive by its very nature and excluding of , and therefore discriminatory against, all those whom the celebration does not include. I’m so over and fed up with this. People scared to talk or communicate in writing at work for fear of referring to an entity in the wrong pronoun. It’s absolute utter nonsense. What about my right to be offended by asking me to ‘compartmentalise’ myself??? Today is far too woke. Redtrees I am sooo happy I don’t work for your company. Tbh I would be disgusted if I thought any of my family or friends worked for such an establishment What you are saying in terms of “ policy would have you fired for that ( in my words!) “ seems to me your company will be at the height of a discriminatory televised and deeply publicised investigation, in much the same as say, Anna wintour or whatever her name is has been recently. You cannot treat people like objects, you cannot wipe women ( as they are biologically and factually known and identified and legally are ) out of history because some woke pleb decided that we need DISCRIMINATE against us ladies. I think if you can’t stand up for yourself maybe you should get a better job, in a nicer and more pleasant place , where you will be fully appreciated. Happy lady wishes to EVERYONE.

@RedtreesRedtrees has missed the point. There is a commonality here because people with similar views have chosen to come to this board. A very different situation to having policies imposed on a person at work where there is little choice.

Sure there are people who don’t agree with GC views. They’ll mostly be on non-GC boards not here.

@DialSquare

As a lurker in these boards for a number of years, today is the day that I feel I needed to sign up and comment. I will never understand how someone could read the points being made by the brilliant and articulate women here and not see that being fully inclusive in every way of one group of people will actually exclude many many more of another group of people and for a variety of different reasons. It’s clear as day to me what that will create and how awful it will be for so many but some people just do not seem to care about women and children. They are collateral damage. And I genuinely believe that I speak for many of the lurkers on here who are going away like me and doing what they can to try and protect the rights we have. Slowly but surely the world is waking up to this and most people agree with the GC viewpoint. Which isn’t transphobic or bigoted. It’s all about keeping hard fought rights.

Snap! I've been lurking too and decided today is the day to start taking steps to speak up. So far I've only talked to my husband who looks at me with utter bewilderment as I become more and more enraged by what I have read. Today's tipping point is the cancelling of Linda Bellos, but this just seems to be the latest in a rapidly growing line of intelligent, articulate women being silenced for having an opinion which doesn't fit the gender ideology. I've seen so much hate, so many threats, abusive language and it's ALL been from TRAs. Fighting to maintain the rights of women and girls rights is not transphobic and it is appalling that this view is shared so openly as a means of silencing us.

I don’t disagree with you @crumpet. However , everyone on this board chose to use this board and make their comments on it. No, you don’t choose your ‘employer’s’ policies, but that doesn’t mean they don’t need challenging as they are legally incorrect and disallowed.

PS hope you have fun with this one DM!

[quote RedtreesRedtrees]@scrimpshawthesecond We use a range of interrogation techniques From some of the comments on this thread you’d think my company was a Russian gulag. We are a thriving business with a diverse employee base and women in most of the top management roles (including our GC). We are not some kind of repressed subjugated group suffering at the hands of a tyrannical leader! But from that position of strength we don’t feel the need to repress or subjugate others and we strive to be inclusive. It is too apparent reading through some of the threads on here that in many instances GC serves as a cloak for transphobia (by which I mean a hatred and intolerance of trans people (before someone asks ). Sure people are always extremely careful to stay on the ‘right’ side of the line, but it doesn’t take a genius to read between the lines. It saddens me that the most vociferous proponents of this are stoking fears and divisions where none need exist. Every now and then the mask slips.

@Kit19 I’m not familiar with this term. Presumably a play on derailing? 🤷‍♀️[/quote]
Thanks for attempting to answer, Redtrees. But all you've done is tell me that you are happy with your company and what your aims are. They sound great, laudable and fair.

But what are the views that would have you sack someone? Could you please, and I am asking because I sincerely would like to know, spell out for those of us who are perhaps not as bright as the others on the board, what the views are that you would compel employees to 'seek employment elsewhere'? And how do you elicit these views?

Our company has a policy on diversity, etc. But it doesn't include requiring certain beliefs or views from our staff - I frankly don't think that's my business, as an employer. I have no desire to know the politics or opinions of my staff. I am happy to support all staff as best as possible, and ensure the work environment is safe and a comfortable place to work. But the employees' thoughts/views/opinions are their own.

*Moptophairshop
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I've done the ranting too! Makes you wonder how many lurkers are out there taking this in and biding their time to join in. I haven't until now as I didn't think I had much to add but felt it was time to show my support.

Welcome lurkers!
This is well-timed, it was released today legalfeminist.org.uk/2020/07/19/pronouns-compulsion-and-controversy/

can you not see the uniformity evidenced by posters across these threads? They read like you’re brainwashed

Gaslighting from Redtree there. Really, are we brainwashed if we believe biology is real and women employees should not have compelled speech forced on them or lose their jobs?