Fully outed myself as GC at woke workplace

[McDuffy]

It might be stupid in this job climate but I'm reasonably senior and I've just commented on someone's intranet post on why they've put pronouns in their bio and why it's a nice thing to do with a (softened, for me) counter argument (three, actually).
I'm feeling a bit trembly but courage calls to courage. I don't add much original thought here but I learn so much (though I'm good for a Times share token ) so thanks for making me feel I'm not alone.

@frog22

Does your workplace not have a discrimination policy? I know if I put something like that in writing at work I'd be out the door.

You mean I'm the one discriminating? I just stated it can be seen as controversial and possibly as compelled speech, and also it could be difficult for people with autism or for those with English as a foreign language.

The approach I’ve used so far with the very woke but nice work contacts I have is that I’ve suffered a lot of negative gender stereotyping in my life due to studying a male dominated subject and having male dominated hobbies and so I “don’t feel comfortable” putting female pronouns on a name badge / Twitter / email signature.
This very individualistic reason seems to go down ok. But I’m aware it is cowardly.

This might be it

hbr.org/2018/07/women-benefit-when-they-downplay-gender

This is the study:

Martin, A. E., & Phillips, K. W. (2017). What “blindness” to gender differences helps women see and do: Implications for confidence, agency, and action in male-dominated environments. Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Processes, 142, 28-44. doi:10.1016/j.obhdp.2017.07.004

Basically if you emphasise the difference between men and women in the workplace, and I think a she/her in every woman's signature surely counts, then they perform less well.

@Bananabixfloof thank you, i really appreciate your comment. I think something along the lines of this might work in light of the point @CheeryTreeBlossom made.

I think Malcolm Gladwell had a piece on this in one of his books, though IIRC in the study he discusses it was race bias against oneself. In the study, African Americans scored lower on tests when asked to fill out a form immediately prior to the test which asked their race.

Not sure if this has been looked at again in the context of women and sexism.

Ah sorry @CheeryTreeBlossom, x post!

Hi all, can someone briefly explain this pronoun thing to me? I’m not sure I understand? What is it that ‘woke’ people are arguing for, and what is the argument against it?

Well done for coming out it is very nerve wracking. I have recently come out and am worried for my job (very woke). But I remembered all the people I admire most made personal sacrifices so I guess I have to roll the dice 🤷‍♀️ and just hope that normal reasonable logical thinking eventually wins over this Orwellian nightmare.

@WhatTheD1ckens

Hi all, can someone briefly explain this pronoun thing to me? I’m not sure I understand? What is it that ‘woke’ people are arguing for, and what is the argument against it?

A good article from FPFW for context fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

Thanks Wolf
I can sometimes be a bit of a wuss but I have a very strong sense of what's fair and discovering this board and (proper) feminism has changed my life. I've been quite active effecting change in other, more anonymous ways (which I can't disclose but hold FWR responsible ), but the more of us there are, the easier it is.

You mean I'm the one discriminating? I just stated it can be seen as controversial and possibly as compelled speech, and also it could be difficult for people with autism or for those with English as a foreign language.

Yes my employer would see that as discrimination. If you company is 'woke' as you say would HR not be critical of you posting this? I'm just curious as I'm quite senior in my organisation and they are very 'inclusive'. I know my job would be on the line if I did this. I'm not criticising you I'm more interested from an employment point of view.

Thank you (please be someone in my workplace)! Xxx

Ah I see!
I think (hope) I was careful enough in my wording (might be seen as... some people say that... kind of approach). I did run the wording past my friend first and they always tell me if I've overstepped the mark. If work want to sack me for it my DH's best man is a SHL though I like my job so I hope it'll be a blip on radars rather than major news.

Well done for doing it OP and hope you don't have any repercussions.

It shouldn't be this way but because it is you're brave for speaking up.

I have done so in the past, but I have a new boss and am on a contract so might shut up for a while whilst having a moan on here!

Well done OP. I wish I was as brave as you.

We had to fill in a questionnaire for work today and one of the questions in place of male/female/other - with a description box, was the question 'how would you describe your gender?'

Wtf. I typed out a big response about how I can't describe my gender as I believe gender is a social construct and how I wear trousers and don't wear make-up, etc. But I deleted it all and said 'i would describe my sex as female.

I did that on a CMI questionnaire last week. In the comments box at the end I said I didn't identify as female as the question asked, but that my sex was female. I think it's enough to state simple facts and maybe get the survey owner to change their approach in future (the eternal optimist!)

Well done! My company works with lots of youngsters, but most people are varying degrees of GC. The younger ones are sometimes a bit "TWAW" but when you ask them for more details they tend to be more GC than they realise.

OP I hope you’ll take time to reflect on your views during your forthcoming period of unemployment.

@frog22

You mean I'm the one discriminating? I just stated it can be seen as controversial and possibly as compelled speech, and also it could be difficult for people with autism or for those with English as a foreign language.

Yes my employer would see that as discrimination. If you company is 'woke' as you say would HR not be critical of you posting this? I'm just curious as I'm quite senior in my organisation and they are very 'inclusive'. I know my job would be on the line if I did this. I'm not criticising you I'm more interested from an employment point of view.

Discrimination needs to be a lot more concrete than having a generalised opinion.. I would be interested to hear how your organisation would describe a reasonable for dismissal for gross misconduct for someone having an opinion about pronouns? What are the facts of the gross misconduct?

A reason, not a reasonable!

Yes, I've noticed that too.

Discrimination needs to be a lot more concrete than having a generalised opinion.. I would be interested to hear how your organisation would describe a reasonable for dismissal for gross misconduct for someone having an opinion about pronouns? What are the facts of the gross misconduct?

Obviously it's not my place to give facts on a dismissal and I'm a little surprised you would even expect this. It's a private issue for the individual to deal with and discuss when or if they are comfortable. The person involved is on mumsnet so if they want to divulge the details to you they can. But I'd be surprised if they wanted to discuss their personal circumstances with a stranger on mumsnet.

@RedtreesRedtrees

OP I hope you’ll take time to reflect on your views during your forthcoming period of unemployment.

Ooh I'd love some free time! This year has been so busy. I'll spend some of it pondering why He-Man's sister(?) wasn't called She-Woman. And why Mr Men's female equivalents weren't called Ms Women. Not all of those Little Misses could've been the same size else they'd have been normal rather than little. It's all comparative. And I'm still pissed off about the female representation in the Paw Patrol gang, Everest is peripheral at best.

I'm still pissed off about the female representation in the Paw Patrol gang, Everest is peripheral at best.

So it will work well for both you and your employer

Well done op. I stood up and argued with Stonewall at work at a diversity seminar. I am pro diversity, but Stonewall, not so much.
People were tutting and shaking their heads and I was trembling as I spoke; it was really embarrassing , but I work for the police and I had to point out the problems within the criminal justice system.