Fully outed myself as GC at woke workplace

[McDuffy]

It might be stupid in this job climate but I'm reasonably senior and I've just commented on someone's intranet post on why they've put pronouns in their bio and why it's a nice thing to do with a (softened, for me) counter argument (three, actually).
I'm feeling a bit trembly but courage calls to courage. I don't add much original thought here but I learn so much (though I'm good for a Times share token ) so thanks for making me feel I'm not alone.

I didn't get the sack, OP, although the force diversity champion wanted my name to "discuss issues" with me. Once I followed up and e-mailed her, confirming my identity, she wanted nothing more to do with me.
I must be on a list somewhere.

@RedtreesRedtrees

So it will work well for both you and your employer

If an employer decides to dismiss someone because they refuse to join in with this charade of pronouns, they deserve to be taken to an employment tribunal and made to pay a shit load in compo. What exactly is the purpose of writing pronouns in an email signature? If someone replies to my email, they just usually use the name I've signed off my email to them with.

Must be the day for it

We had a COVID risk assessment to complete, huge amount of information on risk factors including sex

Then in the risk assessment questions asked for gender....

I pointed out to my line manger that in a risk assessment wording needs to be factual to be accurate!

( then I gave my team a mini lecture on the difference...they are bloody hcp's!! ( but young))

@frog22

Discrimination needs to be a lot more concrete than having a generalised opinion.. I would be interested to hear how your organisation would describe a reasonable for dismissal for gross misconduct for someone having an opinion about pronouns? What are the facts of the gross misconduct?

Obviously it's not my place to give facts on a dismissal and I'm a little surprised you would even expect this. It's a private issue for the individual to deal with and discuss when or if they are comfortable. The person involved is on mumsnet so if they want to divulge the details to you they can. But I'd be surprised if they wanted to discuss their personal circumstances with a stranger on mumsnet.

But you posted twice explaining you would be dismissed from your organisation for expressing an opinion on pronouns. You also said you are quite senior.

So my question to you is what are the grounds for dismissal you are referring to that covers an opiy on pronouns? You must know, you have posted twice that your employer has a discrimination policy that would lead to dismissal in this situation so please explain how?

My business has over 300 employees and none of them has been “brave” enough to come out with the GC bullshit. Of course some may hold those views in private, but they know better than to air them in the workplace.

Redtrees If I was currently questioning my gender then being required to declare pronouns would be distressing for me - it'd force me to a decision I may not be ready to make and 'out' me as trans if I decided I wanted to be referred to by one set of pronouns.
I think it's fine if people wish to declare pronouns but people should be a bit more thoughtful about people who may struggle with their gender identity before making it a requirement.

@frog22

Does your workplace not have a discrimination policy? I know if I put something like that in writing at work I'd be out the door.

Here's a reminder frogg 22. You said you know. Please tell us how it works? Is having an opinion on pronouns gross misconduct?

*But you posted twice explaining you would be dismissed from your organisation for expressing an opinion on pronouns. You also said you are quite senior.

So my question to you is what are the grounds for dismissal you are referring to that covers an opiy on pronouns? You must know, you have posted twice that your employer has a discrimination policy that would lead to dismissal in this situation so please explain how?*

I don't work in HR for the organisation and I don't have input into their discrimination policy. It's not my place to rational their policy on mumsnet. If you are that eager to discuss this I can send you a message with the direct phone number for HR. They are open from 8am on Monday. Just post your findings on here once you've had the conversation.

Frog, you're making no sense. What policy have you read that has informed you that you would be sacked? If you know this, you must be informed about the policy that dictates it?

So you don't know at all. Are you just scaremongering then by saying that you do know?

Trollhunting is against the talk guidelines, frog.

Surely trolling a woman is against the guidelines?

So you don't know at all. Are you just scaremongering then by saying that you do know?

I already told you I know because someone was dismissed. Don't you remember that message? You did reply to it after I sent it. You asked me to provided information that I wasn't in a position to discuss and I'm not going to stand up for an organisation dismissing a woman. Or try and humiliate her on mumsnet.

Fanta I'm also genuinely interested in how workplace employment policy has been influenced in this issue but I think we're not going to learn anything here.

Take care, OP.

Frog, you're making no sense.

What policy have you read that has informed you that you would be sacked?

I didn't read the policy, someone was dismissed.

If you know this, you must be informed about the policy that dictates it?

Why would knowing that someone was dismissed mean that I know about the policy that informed the decision?

I don't understand the attack on me?

Just looking for clarity Frog - it's not good to believe everything you read on the internet!

I'm just wondering visit something that might be written into my work policy is it lawful etc etc

Ah ok. I've not asked you to humiliate anyone. I asked you to explain the policy that you explicitly referred to. You have inferered however that the OPs actions are the equivalent of a dismissal you know about which if you didn't want to ever expand on, whilst it's understandable that you don't, makes your cryptic comments really rather alarming to the OP.

She's nervous enough without being told that she will be dismissed because someone else was in circumstances we are not going to know about.

A lot of what is going on with this speculation about "discrimination" for holding reasonable opinions is causing anxiety and fear. The actual cases are few and far between and the fearful reaction outweighs the actual risk. Innuendo here doesn't help.

Is it , not visit sorry.

I'm sorry that someone you know was dismissed, but it's unfair to extrapolate that scenario to a generalised message to not speak because "discrimination".

@RedtreesRedtrees

My business has over 300 employees and none of them has been “brave” enough to come out with the GC bullshit. Of course some may hold those views in private, but they know better than to air them in the workplace.

It's not bullshit that forcing women to remind all and sundry of their femaleness by shoving she/her in every bloody email will disadvantage women.

I am sooo glad I don't work for an employer who has zero understanding of what it means to reinforce stereotype threat for 51% of the population.

It's nice that you think we live in a post-sexist world ( that or you don't give a shit about women's experience of work) but that assumption couldn't be more wrong.

You will be actively disadvantaging female employees with your mindset.

There is no way I would go along with this pronoun nonsense.
Just no - not putting pronouns in emails or on name badges.

She's nervous enough without being told that she will be dismissed because someone else was in circumstances we are not going to know about.

She didn't convey that nervousness to me when we messaged. I was actually looking for clarity on why she could speak up in her 'woke' workplace to give move women the confidence to speak up. Based on my personal experience I'm too scared to do so. It's important that we can express our own lived experiences on mumsnet while maintaining a right to privacy online. We are not reflecting a true picture of what it's like to live in Britain today as a woman if we think we are all able to challenge these issues like OP did. Revealing my employer could be outing for me and I'm not able to deal with these consequences at the moment. But I don't want to be silenced online or scared to express my views. Feminism shouldn't be used as a way to pile on a women when she expresses weakness.