Fully outed myself as GC at woke workplace

[McDuffy]

It might be stupid in this job climate but I'm reasonably senior and I've just commented on someone's intranet post on why they've put pronouns in their bio and why it's a nice thing to do with a (softened, for me) counter argument (three, actually).
I'm feeling a bit trembly but courage calls to courage. I don't add much original thought here but I learn so much (though I'm good for a Times share token ) so thanks for making me feel I'm not alone.

I'm also dyslexic and autistic and I understand I can come over as blunt when I write. It wasn't my intention to scare anyone.

You haven't been asked to reveal your employer by me. No one is going to do that on an anonymous forum.

The bar for dismissal of someone with full employment rights (so more than 2 years service) is incredibly high. People might try to attack others which is scary but ultimately the person attacking is more likely to be straying into unacceptable behavior than someone speaking as carefully as the OP was. Nothing the OP said could lead to a fair disciplinary.

A suggestion - compelling people to make a definite public statement on a personal matter which an individual may not yet have come to terms with yet could be seen as harassment and bullying.

That's what I'd go with if pressurised.

I can see it wasn't intentional now. It really upsets me that women are so scared when they should not be put into that position so apologies for misunderstanding your motives. It's part of the problem isn't it? The fear causes suspicion.

I missed all this!
I'm not nervous about dismissal, it's very difficult to sack people anywhere, especially for "bullshit" reasons and with my length of service and unblemished record. I was more generally nervous about any pushback or comments I'd get from colleagues, but I worded it gently enough that no one has told me off yet.

This is all so strange for me. I retired about 10 years ago. I have been moving through society as a baby boomer, we influenced everything we touched (right bloody mess that turned out to be), we could speak up about anything, but I realise now that I was confident in my views, anti sexism, anti-racist, anti homophobia and society in general held those views (with exceptions) it was easy. I can see that now, that the balance has gone to extremes and therefore so many of your are in fear of speaking out. This usually means that things have gone too far (not certain on that statement but I believe it).

Imposition is often used when the rule is weak. Society has a tendency to kick back in those circumstances. Someone, somewhere is using language to great effect but it has become too complicated and because of that, society will just revert to its easiest last step, In this case, will revert back to not using pronouns. It will, fortunately, also go back to simply using women and men. Perhaps even LGBT Can't wait

OK so you’re talking about someone telling people at work whether to call them ‘she/her’ or ‘he/him’? But the pronouns they ask for might not match their biological sex? How would this appear in an intranet bio or email signature? Their name with the pronouns in brackets? Sorry to be thick, just asked my partner and he’s never heard of this either.

And why do people have a problem with this? I think I would have a problem with it too but my opinion is only just forming so I need some more info on where you’re all coming from.

Also, can someone give me a proper definition of GC? I know I’m late to the party here but can’t find much on Google!

' Male and female created He them' - If she is a true believer

WhatTheDickens - no, people are already free to do that if they choose. What’s happening in the OP’s workplace, and increasingly (it happened at the BBC last week, supposedly) is that employers are demanding that everyone should include their preferred pronouns in their email signature, so you sign off Katie Jones, Very Important Job (she/her). In theory this ‘normalises’ the use of preferred pronouns, so that someone who wants to be thought of as she but looks like a he, or vice versa, doesn’t stand out for saying so. It’s therefore “a kind thing to do that doesn’t hurt anyone”. The objections are that it implies that everyone buys into a theory of gender than many of us have serious problems with, and it calls attention to everyone’s gender when in some contexts women will be disadvantaged by that.

The performative pronouns thing is so sexist.

there is no established legal right for employers to force anyone else to declare pronouns against their will.

You could point to the precedent set by the Northern Irish ‘Gay Cake’ case which established that it’s not legal to try to compel someone’s adherence to a belief that they don’t share.

This thread covers the same issues and links to previous threads on the same.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3574450-Work-policy-coming-in-AIBU

GC means that you don’t believe it the current theory of gender as distinct from sex, ie that everyone has a gender identity which may or may not match your biological sex. Instead, if you’re gender critical, you believe that everyone has a biological sex and is free to behave in accordance with or completely counter to perceived gender norms, as fits their personality, but however they choose to behave or present they are still the sex they were born, because there’s no such thing as an innate ‘gender’, gender norms being a social construct. That’s my understanding, anyway!

I don’t understand some of the facts from your OP: are some of your work colleagues putting preferred pronouns on their email signatures / profiles; you think it’s because they think this is ‘kind’; and you commented on an internal intranet challenging this assumption and suggesting the practice isn’t necessary / a good idea?

Is this a UK employer?

At a museum talk in the US last year speakers announced their ‘preferred pronouns’ as part of their introduction. I thought it was woke BS, a friend thought it was ‘cool’ but she couldn’t explain why!

@Dozer

I don’t understand some of the facts from your OP: are some of your work colleagues putting preferred pronouns on their email signatures / profiles; you think it’s because they think this is ‘kind’; and you commented on an internal intranet challenging this assumption and suggesting the practice isn’t necessary / a good idea?

Is this a UK employer?

At a museum talk in the US last year speakers announced their ‘preferred pronouns’ as part of their introduction. I thought it was woke BS, a friend thought it was ‘cool’ but she couldn’t explain why!

Pretty much that, someone posted saying that they were doing it and why and invited others to join them, that's what I replied to.

I was off last week but will be scouring the work intranet for this on Monday in the hope that you work at the same company as I do! I know the chances are minute but one can hope

Thanks for explaining. Good for you for challenging the wokery.

Would this not be like asking someone to declare their race or ethnicity in their email signature, supposedly in support of BLM? But would actually, probably, have the opposite effect of making the person who identifies themselves as the oppressed group more likely to be subjected to bias and discrimination because racist (or in OP's case, sexist) people will know who to discriminate against whereas previously, when they only had a name on an email,they couldn't be sure of the person's characteristics?

OP, can I also say I share your thoughts exactly on both Paw Patrol and the Little Miss books. Toy Story is also bugging me at the moment.

I'm just baffled as to how I am supposed to remember everyone's preferred pronouns when I can no longer remember my own age or where the heck my car keys are.

Prompted by this thread been reflecting on how, at my work, we decide on pronouns for trans / gender non conforming colleagues, and indeed colleagues haven’t met in person with ‘unisex’ names.

I think names seem key, eg would use ‘she’ for Stephanie, and ‘they’ for Alex, and for unisex names colleagues will sometimes ask others if they know if Alex is a man or woman. And clothing: think people use ‘she’ for anyone wearing ‘women’s’ clothing.

Assume that trans / gender non conforming colleagues have, at some point, made their wishes known to their immediate colleagues, and other colleagues take our cue from them.

How on earth can we possible get down to such fine detail as a myriad of pronouns, all the thought and time that has to go with this, and the amendments to T & C's, all the time spent discussing, all the time spent reading, -and still function as a society-

The trans community are protected from discrimination in law EA I believe. We cannot prevent private discriminatory thoughts by bringing in the thought police....just a thought

@Minty82 thank you so much for that helpful explanation, I get it now!

Pleasure - I hope it made sense!

But people don't use he for people in Male clothing if they have a female figure

My business has over 300 employees and none of them has been “brave” enough to come out with the GC bullshit. Of course some may hold those views in private, but they know better than to air them in the workplace

Yes, because the punishment for 'wrong think' would be 30 years in the gulag.

“Yes, because the punishment for 'wrong think' would be 30 years in the gulag”

Nope they’d be free to seek employment elsewhere. I just won’t have them in my company.