Fully outed myself as GC at woke workplace

[McDuffy]

It might be stupid in this job climate but I'm reasonably senior and I've just commented on someone's intranet post on why they've put pronouns in their bio and why it's a nice thing to do with a (softened, for me) counter argument (three, actually).
I'm feeling a bit trembly but courage calls to courage. I don't add much original thought here but I learn so much (though I'm good for a Times share token ) so thanks for making me feel I'm not alone.

Julie Bindel just tweeted this quote from Andrea Dworkin which feels oddly pertinent here:

'The public censure of women as if we are rabid because we speak without apology about the world in which we live is a strategy of threat that usually works. Men often react to women's words - speaking and writing - as if they were acts of violence.'
^^

Does anybody know a heterosexual male that would seriously see no difference between dating a woman and a transwoman?

No doubt somebody will be along to say 'but why should men be the judge of what a woman is' but the hypocrisy of that would make me laugh out loud...

As a lurker in these boards for a number of years, today is the day that I feel I needed to sign up and comment. I will never understand how someone could read the points being made by the brilliant and articulate women here and not see that being fully inclusive in every way of one group of people will actually exclude many many more of another group of people and for a variety of different reasons. It’s clear as day to me what that will create and how awful it will be for so many but some people just do not seem to care about women and children. They are collateral damage. And I genuinely believe that I speak for many of the lurkers on here who are going away like me and doing what they can to try and protect the rights we have. Slowly but surely the world is waking up to this and most people agree with the GC viewpoint. Which isn’t transphobic or bigoted. It’s all about keeping hard fought rights.

07:34ScrimpshawTheSecond

But you've still not answered my question, Redtrees. What views do you consider unacceptable in your staff, and how do you screen for them?

08:32RedtreesRedtrees

@scrimpshawthesecondWe use a range of interrogation techniques

You use a "range of interrogation techniques"?

You and your company sound absolutely foul.

Are these "interrogation techniques" used to elicit information on what an employee thinks - even if it is unrelated in any way to their job?

For example would you "interrogate" me about why I will not post on social media that I support Black Lives Matter not because I don't think black lives matter but the BLM has an extreme , Marxist agenda.

Or do you adhere to "silence is violence"?

I don't personally support my company's official charity- it is a huge, well- funded medical charity and I prefer to donate to animal charities. Would you "interrogate" me on that?

I don't take any active part in Pride - which seems to occupy a huge part of the calendar now.

Peter Tatchell by the way opposed same sex marriage- would you "interrogate" him ?

'@DialSquare'

We're all getting wise now, I wish I'd realised earlier, but I hope we'll make a massive difference and give these gals a bit of a boost

I am agape at reading @RedtreesRedtrees' posts: s/he is actively advocating breaking the law in developing policies in his/her company. The 2010 Equalities Act protects sex. "Gender cRitical" views are not bullshit: they are basic feminism: that sex and gender are different things.

Sex is the biological reality of every human (indeed mammalian) body.

Gender is a cultural & social construction, historically & culturally specific, which tries to condition or socialise sexed bodies into certain behaviours.

Feminist analysis argues that gender is the ideological structure which maintains male supremacy & patriarchy.

So to use the phrase "GC bullshit" is to announce to your employees that you don't countenance equal pay, rights to maternity leave, and other rights concerned with an employee's sex.

Agreed highame

The whole time I've been lurking I've been trying to bring attention to this with friends and have yet to come across someone who disagrees

Me too, DialSquare. I just keep (with mouth open) wondering how on earth did all this happen so quickly.

legalfeminist.org.uk/2020/07/19/pronouns-compulsion-and-controversy/

This just appeared on another thread. Very relevant to this discussion.

Certain people took advantage of many others good nature and before we knew it, the inch became a mile.

Redtrees

Please quote people properly. Either use the quote function, or bold or italics for the poster you are quoting. If you're not good with technical stuff then at least write quote marks around other people's words.

'Generally I think we need to get much smarter about how we tackle this. Much as it might be nice to see an army of women rising up to tackle the extremes not everyone is in a position to do this and they shouldn't be made to feel that they therefore can't do "anything". We need to look at ways people can oppose, the language they can use, that makes a point but doesn't give anyone the excuse to claim any phobias'

Completely agree @HPFA - this has been a really useful thread to read and reflect on. HT to @wellbehavedwomen and @DianasLasso for their very clear and cogent summaries of why sex based rights and policies really matter. I'll be bookmarking this thread.

Thanks almost all!
I didn't come on here seeking reasons, redtrees. I got some new ones though as I'm learning from these amazing women every day. I was seeking validation in a way because it's fine to say what's perceived as easy/nice, and I was putting my head above the parapet and giving an alternative view and it can be scary. I'd rather have this lot on my side than anyone else on the internet

@Arborea

'Generally I think we need to get much smarter about how we tackle this. Much as it might be nice to see an army of women rising up to tackle the extremes not everyone is in a position to do this and they shouldn't be made to feel that they therefore can't do "anything". We need to look at ways people can oppose, the language they can use, that makes a point but doesn't give anyone the excuse to claim any phobias'

Completely agree @HPFA - this has been a really useful thread to read and reflect on. HT to @wellbehavedwomen and @DianasLasso for their very clear and cogent summaries of why sex based rights and policies really matter. I'll be bookmarking this thread.

I've sent my mum, aunt and sister over here to have a look, too. They're all pretty feisty waves

Even redtrees knows the difference between males and females, which is why they made a point about how many females were employed in senior roles in their company. We all know that differences exist . Redtrees calls this being "divisive".

The enforced pronoun business is based upon the perpetuation of a lie; an untruth....the supposed purpose : 'inclusion'.

My feeling is that trans people have to be honest with themselves. They are different; they are other...Just get on with it, and don't try to force the world to comply or change/deny the basics of biological reality in order to support your 'identity'.

@McDuffy

Thanks for that. I thought the thread was being completely hi-jacked when it had started being so affirmative and looking to support women who where GC and needed someone in a position of strength to stand up and be counted. Loads of people doing it💖

They are different; they are other

This is the fundamental experience of 51% of the population from the moment we're born, and observed to be female....

That article is incredibly interesting FantaOra thank you.

This is the fundamental experience of 51% of the population from the moment we're born, and observed to be female

There are sex based differences - it is not all just about gender constructs, though.

For example, there is no female equivalent to the AGP ( autogynephillic) cross-dressing male, for whom transvestitism represents a sexual thrill. Males are disproportionately responsible for 'peeping tom' type activities; for 'flashing and self exposure; for the use of pornography: and for looking at child abuse imagery; for very specific fetishes.

Male sexuality is a lot more visual and dependent on visual clues, than is female sexuality; in most circumstances males find it easier to detach emotionally from sex... These tendencies do not fade away simply by identifying as female, or by wearing feminine clothing.
Paris Lees told of how men travelled the length and breadth of the country to have sex with them...and this was how they raised money for their gender -re-assignment surgery.

It seems to me that the underlying theme here is an inability to accept that we don’t all accept the GC perspective. Consequently all you can do is fall back on accusations of misogyny or that I must be a man . Of myself and my colleagues I’d say we are strong women leading in a very male dominated sector. We’re not repressed or subjugated and we do not spend our time agitating, spreading fear and slaying imaginary dragons. Some posters have railed against an apparent uniformity of thought in the company, but can you not see the uniformity evidenced by posters across these threads? They read like you’re brainwashed. I appreciate you dislike the term, but there really is unmerited hysteria in some of the posts here. I believe somebody actually took a quip about interrogation as literal fact! Some of the claims have been even more wild. We will clearly not agree on this so I will wish you the best and leave you to continue the ‘discussion’ amongst yourselves.

Totally agree with you, @Justhadathought - no argument about sex-based differences.

Gender turns those sex-based differences into an oppressive hierarchy however.

And women/girls are so routinely "othered" in our society that w don't notice it. Until someone like Caroline Criado-Perez points it out.

How can you be brainwashed into accepting biological reality?

@RedtreesRedtrees has refused to answer a single question thats been put to them, which is a shame because I'd like to know how many of their female staff (especially the Top team) they retain after they have children, and how.

Very good post just