The Times:The detransitioners

[NeurotrashWarrior]

The detransitioners: what happens when trans men want to be women again?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-detransitioners-what-happens-when-trans-men-want-to-be-women-again-fd22b7jhs

I'm afraid I don't have a share token.

2020, 12.01am, The Sunday Times

When I told people I was going to create a photographic series about trans men who wanted to “detransition” and become women again, I was told to expect a backlash. Actually, I was told I would be crucified — look at what happened to JK Rowling recently. At the very least I’d better take a holiday from Twitter. One person told me I should not be focusing on detransitioners when trans people are still struggling for acceptance. But this would be to silence key voices when we should be having an inclusive and nuanced discussion about gender identity, especially at a time when the government is deciding how, or whether, it will reform the Gender Recognition Act 2004.

The parts that I have been able to read via a friend are starkly shocking.

This conversation dances around the brave and stunning men who decide to transition and claim womanhood. It ignores the very real damage done to actual women, both by erasing rights and actual harm to their bodies.

"I’m 23 and I am basically in menopause already, with all the health implications that come with that. I can’t comprehend how doctors could let this happen"

I've seen some YouTube videos on this topic it's truly horrific stuff and a story that needs to be told.

"I get that there are people with serious gender dysphoria, but I think the biggest reason that women are transitioning is because they can’t accept they are lesbians".

I know Thomasin who is in the piece.

What horrifies me is her description of how she was groomed by a TW and online.

When schools contribute to the ideology, they hammer the nail in the coffin.

I hope someone can link a share token soon.

"I spoke to various people with experience in the field — doctors, therapists, nurses, endocrinologists — and while no one wanted to be quoted, off the record they predict this is merely the beginning.

"This conversation dances around the brave and stunning men who decide to transition and claim womanhood. It ignores the very real damage done to actual women, both by erasing rights and actual harm to their bodies."

Yes. It's sad that people were allowed to do that when so young.

I'm very sorry about what you are going through at 23, however you may be able to go back to being a fully functioning woman if no longer taking medication. I do hope so. Good for you speaking out.

It's a very powerful article. What stood out to me was the failure of psychiatrists to explore the issues around the apparent dysphoria these very disturbed young women were experiencing. The ease with which their 'transness' was accepted and the speed of their access to extreme medical intervention. To see it all written down in these very few examples is shocking.

Here you go

The detransitioners: what happens when trans men want to be women again?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/25f95e06-bf8f-11ea-9ea2-5a548b3aebca?shareToken=a5fb9ca37a2581ef711137892c097192

"... gender dysphoria was seen as the cause of my problems and not a symptom of them."

Thanks McDuffy

Yes Michele Moore's research has shown that many disturbed young people were told that dealing with the gd would fix the other issues they had eg anorexia, despite only developing the GD later on.

In fact in one instance a teen started id ing as a trans man after meeting other girls who were in the anorexia clinic.

Oh it's both a stunning piece of work and so anger inducing. Anger about how society is enabling this to happen.

These two quotes by Ellie:

*I had put the problem inside myself, when actually it is with how the outside world sees women who don’t conform to feminine norms.

My transition was not necessary, but I don’t want to be regretful. I want to work on accepting my body exactly the way it is now. This is what should have been encouraged from the beginning.*

So much in a nutshell. And she and others talk about the acceptance of butch lesbians.

I see tumblr mentioned as well. It really is a pernicious hell hole of a platform

I've read it now and I'm close to tears. So upsetting.

I found that a really tough read..... it's utterly heart-breaking

Interesting that not one of the ‘professionals’ was willing to go on the record

That says it all. They won’t go on the record because presumably they’re scared for their careers but they’re failure to do so sadly makes it easier to dismiss the article as just a few sad but unrepresentative cases. I don’t think it is that all but I bet that’s the line TRA/mermaids take in response

Such a sad read. These women are so brave and courageous when they have suffered such physical and emotional abuse.

Largely by the clinics that treated them.

I was wondering, given the stats on ftm transition, the vitriol and abuse I see online is from trans women. I wondered if that's generally how it actually is - a continuation of men abusing women regardless of the trans label.

Generalistic I know, but I've only seen abuse from female trans supporters and trans women, not trans men.

They all, in some combination, found being a woman too difficult, too dangerous or too disgusting. “I put the problem inside myself,” says one, “when actually it is with how the outside world sees women who don’t conform to feminine norms.”

This is the sad, raw truth. Society hate women who don’t conform

“This never happens.”

“These cases are rare.”

“But they were never really trans.”

“The doctors shouldn’t have let them go that far, only dodgy clinics would allow that.”

“We can’t admit that young people might be rushing into hormone and surgical treatment way too young because we don’t have a single moral fibre in our bodies.”

its brilliant that The Times has published this important piece. please, if you possibly can (given money and social distancing needs i realise not everyone can) to go to a newsagent and buy a copy of the physical paper today. They deserve to see a boost in circulation figures when they give light and air to important stories like this. I am going to buy two copies as I know I will want to put a physical copy into someone's hands sooner or later.

I'm sad and hopping mad.

I'm a teacher and we are lying to our children when we tell them people can change sex.

It's all in there, the issues around gender stereotypes, sexual abuse, rape, sexism and misogyny, body hatred, anorexia.

Trans is how it's all being swept under the carpet.

I will be buying a copy, not least to show anyone I need to.

I subscribe to the Times but I don't know how to do share tokens. Can anyone help me out?

Thank you for the share token. It's heartbreaking. There is a young woman is my life who believes herself to be trans (having cycled through bi and lesbian). While her parents are not allowing medical intervention of any sort, which is great (she's only 13!), there is also an unwittingly sexist, stereotypical narrative going on (I won't give examples as it may out me, but around expectations of women). I also strongly suspect the child to be autistic.
My dread for her is that she will at some point be allowed to progress on this journey and become another regretter. It's all so sad.