The Times:The detransitioners

[NeurotrashWarrior]

The detransitioners: what happens when trans men want to be women again?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-detransitioners-what-happens-when-trans-men-want-to-be-women-again-fd22b7jhs

I'm afraid I don't have a share token.

2020, 12.01am, The Sunday Times

When I told people I was going to create a photographic series about trans men who wanted to “detransition” and become women again, I was told to expect a backlash. Actually, I was told I would be crucified — look at what happened to JK Rowling recently. At the very least I’d better take a holiday from Twitter. One person told me I should not be focusing on detransitioners when trans people are still struggling for acceptance. But this would be to silence key voices when we should be having an inclusive and nuanced discussion about gender identity, especially at a time when the government is deciding how, or whether, it will reform the Gender Recognition Act 2004.

I buy one every day. It's a nice walk to the shop but after covid, when I have less time, I'm going to subscribe. The only thing that bothers me, and I'm going to write to ask....There have been lots of articles recently on the trans debate and freedom of speech, but no letters to the Editor. Most letters are from men?? must pursue this one

The Times coverage is great but I wish it wasn't behind a paywall so more could see it. Think it would make such a difference.

What a fantastic piece of journalism. Who would have thought that in 2020 the guardian would pushing sexist regressive censorous shite whilst the times lead the way with radical and progressive content? I empathised so much with so many parts of those women's stories, especially about the way anorexia can manifest as additional forms of self harm. I truly believe that if I was a teenager today I'd be a victim of this too.

I know it's not really the focus of the article but this bit jumped out at me: Some think that just our existence hurts trans people. On the other hand I have found it hard to hear some feminists refer to detransitioned women as mutilated, or say trans women are grotesque, because I have trans friends.

I've read this same sentiment on the r/detrans group a few times, and from detransitioners on twitter as well. I think feminists do need to be mindful of the language we use around transitioning. We are basically the only community who care about detransitioners and we need to be careful not to alianate them or cause them further emotional harm.

What an absolutely heartbreaking article. Thomasin and her valid tattoo. She will always be valid. So much courage in there. Lee’s story was just heartbreaking.

Laura Dodd worth’s two previous photo stories were in the Guardian. I wonder why this one was in the Sunday Times. Anyway a trip to the paper shop is in order.

Those poor women.
But this is just the start isn’t it? These women started transitioning a few years ago. Since then it has escalated. We will see much more of this in the future. It’s a scandal in the making.
Well done The Times - It’s an excellent report that presents the facts without hyperbole.
What bothers me is how can journalists from newspapers such as The Guardian see well-researched, alarming articles like this and completely ignore it?
Is it because these people are real, actual female women and therefore they don’t matter?
A journalist’s job should be to seek out the truth, not ignore facts that don’t suit their political agenda.

@McDuffy

I can’t make that share token link work - it just takes me to the login page

I've read some of her other books, this was a hard and distressing read but so so important.

ByGarb, yes that caught me too. Some detransitioners do feel they've been mutilated as many say in the article, but you're right that it's entirely up to them to define that and such a large part of all of this is about acceptance of physical bodies how ever they look. The language is important.

Archive link here, if the share token isn't working: archive.is/tot45

But really people should be paying the Times for what they and their real journalists are doing now. They deserve it.

As others have said, what a heartbreaking - but important- article. The women are incredibly brave to come forward and share their stories.

An aspect that makes me so so angry as a nurse is the attitude of health professionals. There is a chilling, mengelian feel to this; surgeons wanting to create perfect bodies, with women as the raw materials for their creations and psychologists abetting women to see their own bodies as malfunctioning.This is not what should happen.

Just because something should be done, doesn’t mean it should.

ValancyRedfern I go to the web version rather than the app and then compose email from the envelope icon and copy from there.

Non-subscribers, please do buy a paper copy today if you can't commit to a sub.

@NecessaryScene1

Archive link here, if the share token isn't working: archive.is/tot45

But really people should be paying the Times for what they and their real journalists are doing now. They deserve it.

I have a subscription. At one point I was going to cancel it. The woman who spoke to me asked why, and I said it was for financial reasons. She immediately offered me a reduction, which I accepted. I then told her that I read the Times mainly for it's gender critical articles, and she said she would pass that on to Editorial.

@NecessaryScene1

Archive link here, if the share token isn't working: archive.is/tot45

But really people should be paying the Times for what they and their real journalists are doing now. They deserve it.

Thanks for the link.

I agree but if The Times thought their articles should only be read by people who can afford £26 a month for a subscription, I presume they wouldn’t allow share tokens?

I think this article needs to reach the widest audience. As a subscriber, I also think The Times are quite savvy to allow share tokens, as it helps them to reach people outside of their core readers who may Then buy the paper from time to time.

There seems to be a glaringly obvious link to FtM trans and childhood abuse / anorexia / OCD and other psychological illnesses that is just being ignored by clinicians. Why is it that I, a woman who has been a teacher for many years, could see that whilst so called gender experts can't? The other link is between MtF trans and homosexuality. Young gay boys who may feel isolated from their peers, who are more accepted by girls so want to join their group. Access to so much misinformation online, where children who are struggling with growing up can get instant gratification from others like themselves is fuelling the fire. GIDS services are wafting the flames instead of trying to put them out.
The only thing to stop this happening is for someone to sue medics for the harm they have done. Money talks!

I'll go out and buy the Times today. "Society hate women who don't conform". This is at the root of it all for me, but society needs to broaden acceptance of boys, girls, men and women who don't conform and to pull back on the toxic stereotypes that have become so ingrained into our society. My dc are older now but a tipping point for me re the stereotyping was probably 10+ years ago when I saw pink and blue versions of Connect 4. It has just got progressively worse and so quickly.

I think this was on the BBC website earlier in the year.

Thanks for the tip Lamahaha
I recently took out the free one month subscription as they had so much stuff I wanted to read. I'll see if I can negotiate a cheaper rate....

Meanwhile going to buy two paper copies today. One for woke daughter when she returns from uni next week and one to leave lying around the coffee room at work....it's a big department.

I am going to subscribe on the basis of this article.

Brilliant, heartbreaking piece. I’ve just re-subscribed to The Times because of this, I’d let my sub lapse a while ago.

These women are truly stunning and brave.

I have no words to adequately express my feelings after reading that article. It was such a difficult and heartbreaking read. Those women are so brave for sharing their stories so publicly. I agree with a lot of the comments on this thread.

”I've read this same sentiment on the r/detrans group a few times, and from detransitioners on twitter as well. I think feminists do need to be mindful of the language we use around transitioning. We are basically the only community who care about detransitioners and we need to be careful not to alianate them or cause them further emotional harm.”

ByGrab I completely agree. I’ve been appalled by some of the retweets I’ve seen by some GCers, particularly where the detransitioner has asked them to delete it and the tweeter has refused (and in some cases blocked the detransitioner!). Their stories are not for us to appropriate for a cause. Some organisations are just as bad- Object UK have had some absolutely vile tweets about gender distressed adolescents and detransitioners. I’ve complained to them, but they don’t give a crap.

I'm extremely grateful for share tokens, thank you again. Dh is buying the times more at the mo. I can't afford a subscription at all. I do have a patreon patreon payment for the detransition advocacy network though.

Towards the end of the article she states that the long-term effects of testosterone on female fertility are not known. Isn't this wrong? Isn't it known that after several years on doses of testosterone high enough to masculinise a woman, her vagina and uterus atrophy irreversibly?

Great article. I buy the Times when I can and always find interesting reads in it. Bit expensive for every day though