Munroe Bergdorf

[ripples101]

I am trans.

I was a follower of Munroe Bergdorf’s Instagram.

Munroe wrote a post about JK Rowling, calling her a dangerous woman to the trans community. Munroe stayed something along the lines of

“JKR is a dangerous cisgendered, white woman who is causing harm”

I replied to this post, asking why Munroe felt it necessary to mention JK Rowing’s racial identity.

I wasn’t Abusive. I just felt that it wasn’t necessary, in regards to what Munroe was being critical of, to mention JK Rowling’s ethnicity.

Within minutes my post was deleted and I was blocked.

I am trans, and Munroe has silenced me.

So it seems nothing can be questioned. Any intent to ask a question, or to strike up debate, will be met with being silenced.

This is fast turning into propaganda. This is fast turning into thought crime. This is fast turning into silencing. This is fast turning into something it should never have been.

When a trans person isn’t even able to question another trans person, what chance do “people who belong to sex that menstruate”* have?

• Christ, I don’t even feel like I can use the word women here without being controversial.

I am so sorry for people to whom I thought I identified alongside (trans people) who are doing this to you. I feel sick and ashamed of what I am, because of people who are representing me.

I feel like I literally have no space left. And I can’t help but feel that a lot of biological woman are feeling the same way. And you have so much more to lose than I ever will, so I simply can’t imagine how this is making you all feel.

And she never did return to educate us about when MB lost their male privilege and by what mechanism.

Just catching up and not got very far

Madbad there is no shame in crying. The only person who has said that is you. Your phrase 'good old girly cry' is rooted in oppressive gender roles that hurt both men and women. This is the feminism board. It's a shit thing to say. It's highly sexist.

The next post of yours I saw said

'her white privilege didn’t stop her being a victim of domestic violence or sexual assault did it? no but it probably helped her be listened to.'

This shows a massive lack of understanding of female experience. While I have no argument with the fact that women of different races will be treated differently by the authorities, what you miss is that being white does not mean you will be listened to. Rotherham ring any bells? Rape prosecutions are at an all time low. There is in progress a law to reinforce existing precedent that women cannot consent to abh, GBH, death as a part of sex. The original case law was related to a man. The precedent was there. But when it came to (in the vast majority) female victims of men, it was being ignored.

And this is why the axes of oppression are different but all important. And people should listen to the people who experience them because experience is way more important than reading or empathising. Hence the allies thing.

The idea that a woman should not speak of women's issues because she is white (or not disabled? Or not a member of a religious minority? Etc) is quite frankly ridiculous.

The diversion into her skin colour is to avoid engaging with her points. To cheaply dismiss her.

The woman from Somalia who supported her was told she should not comment because she is 'cis'.

All of this paints in neon lights a total lack of interest or empathy in women's lives, a narrow view of the world and history, and fundamentally a desire to force women to conform to their gender role. Be mild, supportive, agreeable, pleasant etc etc

@Ereshkigalangcleg

And she never did return to educate us about when MB lost their male privilege and by what mechanism.

Nope.

Still waiting. I was genuinely curious about that one too.

Same re: evidence that normies accept the new science of ‘biological sex isn’t real’

Same re: how will Critical Race Theory bring about racial equality.

Only two pages of thread left to go!

And this is why the axes of oppression are different but all important. And people should listen to the people who experience them because experience is way more important than reading or empathising. Hence the allies thing

I agree
Although people who aren't trans, how do they get to say what being trans is or isn't though?
Surely we should be listening too not just dismissing or telling them that they're not, or mentally ill, or whatever.

'her white privilege didn’t stop her being a victim of domestic violence or sexual assault did it? no but it probably helped her be listened to.'

I would call that rather dismissive, madbaddaddy.

And she never did return to educate us about when MB lost their male privilege and by what mechanism

Ooof.
Was that to me?
If so I KNOW I answered that but I'm not wading back through the thread, but nice try.
It's there for anyone to see if you care to go and have a look.

A question.

If matters affecting women and girls were crass to speak of in the aftermath of George Floyd's death, should the path of the 'rough sex' bill have been halted? Should women protesting about various things around the world have gone home? Should women have stopped talking about and trying to change things of urgent importance to women and girls in various countries have paused?

Where is your line, your personal line, madbad and lemonade?

Although people who aren't trans, how do they get to say what being trans is or isn't though?

Perhaps by the same mechanism by which people who aren't women get to say what being a woman is or isn't? Perhaps they should be listening to women, not just dismissing....

blah blah i can't even be arsed, the hypocrisy is rank.

'her white privilege didn’t stop her being a victim of domestic violence or sexual assault did it? no but it probably helped her be listened to.'

I'd missed this the first time due to skimming. What a genuinely horrible thing to say.

The woman from Somalia who supported her was told she should not comment because she is 'cis'.

And I guess that's the killer blow as far as TRAs are concerned, isn't it. Anyone who is cis has no voice, thank you very much. And you can bet a dime to a dollar, that a transman will be dismissed on the basis that they have male privilege.

Therefore the only people left to speak are men identifying as women. Meet the new boss...

Something which has been noted, on a daily, if not hourly basis, for the best part of 5 or 6 years on these boards.

Why would we bother to disabuse you of your notion of superiority, it's much funnier to watch a knowitall demonstrate their construction site feminism level 1.

It's getting a bit repetitive though now.

Perhaps by the same mechanism by which people who aren't women get to say what being a woman is or isn't?
Trans women?
That wasn't what I meant though - I meant biological women. How are we to say what being trans is or isn't if we're not?

blah blah i can't even be arsed, the hypocrisy is rank

How am I being a hypocrite?
I am a woman, the "right" type according to people one here.

One of my favourite bands as a teenager has just tweeted this: To the terfs and the other loser transphobes: You are not welcome here. Your desire to kneel on other peoples necks will not be tolerated.

So British JKR isn't allowed to react to current events in the UK, because of events in the USA, because she's white.

Is it okay for someone to explicitly exploit the imagery of George Floyd's torturous murder to condemn others with opposing views on a totally different subject?

I only ever cared about the music so I don't know what race the musicians that make up Garbage are. Seems ethically dubious even if every single one is black tbh.

'How are we to say what being trans is or isn't if we're not?'

If that is the case, how are transwomen to say what being a woman is or isn't if they're not?

To the terfs and the other loser transphobes:

Nice of them to prove the point that it's simply a misogynistic slur and not all "transphobes" are "terfs". Not that we didn't know that, of course.

ShinyFootball Bloody hell Shiny, that was so 3 pages ago...

'her white privilege didn’t stop her being a victim of domestic violence or sexual assault did it? no but it probably helped her be listened to.'

I don't see a problem with my reply to this, but it was a bit cheap to use DV/SA to invalidate a point about white privilege that obviously doesn't invalidate it at all. I'm not saying any women can take it for granted that sexual crimes will be responded to as they should be, but 'black lives matter' is shorthand for 'black lives should matter more than they currently and historically do.' which is to me a no-brainer and I can't believe I'm worn out my fucking keyboard trying to get that acknowledged here.

The idea that a woman should not speak of women's issues because she is white (or not disabled? Or not a member of a religious minority? Etc) is quite frankly ridiculous. my points were less about MB and her opinions, and more about OP's befuddlement and experience of being blocked by MB. I haven't much else to say about MB b/c I'm not really up to speed and don't follow her.

But JKR does have white privilege. I think she would possibly defuse critics like MB if she addressed that. If a POC sees an issue as having a racial component, I will accept that b/c I'm not oppressed on account of my race. I have white privilege.

Why didn’t BLM wait until after Pride Month? Because George Floyd got murdered by a policeman and everyone lost their shit. I thought this was a pretty tactless question really. Doesn't anyone here read the news except for Trans stories? All I said was JKR got stuck into her thing in the middle of the BLM surge, and it easily could be seen as competetive.

This shows a massive lack of understanding of female experience. While I have no argument with the fact that women of different races will be treated differently by the authorities, what you miss is that being white does not mean you will be listened to. Rotherham ring any bells? Rape prosecutions are at an all time low. There is in progress a law to reinforce existing precedent that women cannot consent to abh, GBH, death as a part of sex. The original case law was related to a man. The precedent was there. But when it came to (in the vast majority) female victims of men, it was being ignored.

YY. Perfectly put.

I don't see a problem with my reply to this,

Here's my shocked face.

Was that to me?
If so I KNOW I answered that but I'm not wading back through the thread, but nice try.
It's there for anyone to see if you care to go and have a look.

No. Please stop assuming everything is directed at you. You're not that important.

If Rowling getting 'stuck into her thing' is seen as competitive, why isn't the Scottish government, who precipitated the entire issue, seen like that too?

Is it because absolutely no one sees it as 'competitive', other than people who want her to shut up?

Competitive. Dear God. It's so playground. You can see my eye rolls from space.

No. Please stop assuming everything is directed at you. You're not that important

OK, i know don't at me or name check me when I'm on the thread is a thing when people don't want to be tagged or asked questions, but it'd REALLY help if people said who it was referring to in the first place
Who was it to then? As it said she, and was a question i'd repeatedly got told I wasn't answering.
Um, yes I did tho.
Try mentioning who it was to if you're able?
Then might get the right person answering.

The person who brought it up. The person i asked that had clearly left the thread from the wording of my post. So not you then.

Rolling laughter emoji, Datun