Trying to understand the hate trans people get on here.

[Kelcat9494]

Hello,

Firstly I want to say I am not attacking anyone on this forum and I expect the same respect as we are all entitled to an opinion and I am genuinely interested in the reasons why transgender people get so much hate on here:

Firstly I see a lot about not wanting to share bathrooms with trans women as it's a women's safe space - I don't really understand this because to be honest when I'm sat in the cubicle doing my business, I don't think about the persons genitals next to me, it's all very private as you know. The only thing we'd share is the sinks and I don't see a problem with that really. I did read a post about a abuse survivor not wanting to the share the bathroom with someone with a penis (I'm really sorry that the person went through the abuse but that isn't trans people's fault, the fault is with the abuser alone) but in reality a trans person is more at risk in the bathroom and you have no idea whether they are pre op or post op as again in the bathrooms I've been in we don't show each other our genitalia. They are genuinely just doing their human business in the same room as you so don't understand the problem, actually I suppose people are afraid some odd men would use being transgender as an excuse to use the woman's bathroom but that's not trans women's fault also by this logic if we don't want trans women in the bathroom then we should have transmen in there (either pre op or post op), I've posted some pictures below of transmen and woman, would you really want the trans women in men's bathroom and the transmen in the womens?? (I can only post three but you get my point).

I know JKRowling posted about periods and a lot of people jumped on it to say only women have periods and whatever, this isn't true though is it? Some biological women aren't able to have periods or carry a pregnancy or be able to give birth so if we don't see that as a problem as we recognise it's a biological issue then why is trans-men having a period a problem and trans women not having one an issue? And who actually cares? There's enough tampax to go around, maybe let's focus on making them free for women and transmen as I for one is sick of paying for a "luxury item" I need every month due to no fault of my own.

I can't think of anymore off the top of my head that's been posted but anything in the comments I'm happy to reply to but I genuinely think this forum needs to consider what transgender people actually go through, imagine not feeling like you're in the right body, being attacked and hated for who you are and it's obviously not for fun and games because transgender people actually commit suicide over the issues they face remember #bekind and really think how sharing a bathroom or sharing a tampax would affect you? I don't think you'd kill yourself over it.

They are genuinely just doing their human business in the same room as you so don't understand the problem, actually I suppose people are afraid some odd men would use being transgender as an excuse to use the woman's bathroom but that's not trans women's fault also by this logic if we don't want trans women in the bathroom then we should have transmen in there (either pre op or post op), I've posted some pictures below of transmen and woman, would you really want the trans women in men's bathroom and the transmen in the womens?? (I can only post three but you get my point)

I'm going to be honest and say that the issue is that many of us have .....full stop.... is with the whole idea that there is such a thing as a "genuine transgender" person. With the idea that someone is actually born in the 'wrong body'. With the ideology of contemporary transgenderism. And it is a an ideology: a framing of personal discomfort or distress with one's expected sex role along the lines of a specific gendered idea of what it means to be male or female.

What we tend to see is that genuine bodily dysphoria, which was 'traditionally' considered a mental/adaptational health issue, is now being posited as an indicator of a someone who was literally born in the wrong body. That the real indicator of sex, is in someone's mind.

It isn't! It is not just about the seemingly prosaic matter of toilets or changing rooms, but about the instinctive and felt need for same sex privacy dignity, comfort, and so on. Most women understand this.

@PamDenick

Going back to your original post, OP

“We are all entitled to an opinion...”

does that mean JKR be an post her opinions without fear of death or rape threats?

Of course she isn't and of course it's not okay.

That sort of black lash can come with any "controversial" opinion though, if someone posted that they agree with abortions and women can have them because that's what they want then that'd get a similar backlash with rape and death threats ( I have seen that happen, unfortunately whether people are biologically male or female, trans male or female or whatever people want to identify as they are still people and some of them aren't very nice).

Lavatory is the term we used when I was a child, but only for public facilities and school. At home it was the bath room cuz that's where the bath tub was. No bath tubs in lavatories, you see?

Oops I read the post wrong, I meant JKR shouldn't receive death/rape threats for posting her opinions.

I can't think of anymore off the top of my head that's been posted but anything in the comments I'm happy to reply to but I genuinely think this forum needs to consider what transgender people actually go through, imagine not feeling like you're in the right body, being attacked and hated for who you are

I'm sure most here will empathise with personal suffering, but that still doesn't mean that women must give up their protected spaces.I think the trans lobby, likewise, need to empathise with what women and girls experience, and understand this issue as they perceive and experience it.

Transwomen and women are not the same. There are very real differences.

What was controversial about JKRs post?

Agreed just. There is a reason why public toilets get focused on, when of course practically speaking they will always be self policed, with few issues in about 999 out of 1000 cases. What I'm actually bothered about is the fact that humans are born the sex they remain becoming a forbidden statement. Paris Lees being in the ladies... bad example, but lovely S who I know and who doesn't pass but is a gentle soul... who cares. A legal statement that S always was female and there is no difference between us... now I'm bothered.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

"W.C." (always abbreviated) is fairly common on UK public signage (so worth knowing - I know an American who came here and had no idea what it meant) (in fact I've seen it in a number of other European countries too so its usefulness goes beyond Britain).

"Toilet" used to be considered "non U" (vulgar, common). I used to have a Barbara Cartland etiquette manual and the polite term according to her is "lavatory". I seem to recall she rejected WC.

That made me look up the Barbara Cartland Etiquette Manual. Second hand copies are available online. It looks like an ideal gift!

@PamDenick

What was controversial about JKRs post?

They was considered to be "controversial" from some articles I've seen, not saying I agree with that statement as I put it in air quotes. I just think realistically, actually any opinion deemed to be controversial or not on the internet can end up with a backlash of threats, not saying it's correct and not undermining the threats JKR has received but again, some people suck.

@PamDenick

What was controversial about JKRs post?

They was considered to be "controversial" from some articles I've seen, not saying I agree with that statement as I put it in air quotes. I just think realistically, actually any opinion deemed to be controversial or not on the internet can end up with a backlash of threats, not saying it's correct and not undermining the threats JKR has received but again, some people suck.

@PamDenick

What was controversial about JKRs post?

They was considered to be "controversial" from some articles I've seen, not saying I agree with that statement as I put it in air quotes. I just think realistically, actually any opinion deemed to be controversial or not on the internet can end up with a backlash of threats, not saying it's correct and not undermining the threats JKR has received but again, some people suck.

@PamDenick

What was controversial about JKRs post?

They was considered to be "controversial" from some articles I've seen, not saying I agree with that statement as I put it in air quotes. I just think realistically, actually any opinion deemed to be controversial or not on the internet can end up with a backlash of threats, not saying it's correct and not undermining the threats JKR has received but again, some people suck.

Oh wow it really posted four times after saying "failed to post" brilliant

Did you read the letter from JKR, OP?

I very rarely comment on these threads because they are so political but my view (from the non political sidelines is this)
If you want to live 'as though you at a woman' then fine I have NO PROBLEM with that' no problem at all.

Live and let live.

However if you do not have ovaries . Do not / or ever have given birth to a child because you do not have a womb because you were born Male .. then you are NOT female. It is a biological FACT.. sorry but it is the truth and nothing can change that.

Doesn't mean you can't live as a female but you can't claim that you are .

That's my opinion do with it what you will. I know this is the pinion of most women I know. (White middle class working female) if that helps !

It does that sometimes, OP, try hitting refresh when it happens to see if your comment is there!

@LillianBland

Did you read the letter from JKR, OP?

I've not had a look yet, I work 8-6 mon-wed so gonna do some research Thursday, I've made a note of it, I've read some of bucks tweets tonight just as a "dip my toe in" kinda thing and they are really interesting! I feel like my research is a bit of a rabbit hole, I'm keen to learn but also very scared but can't live in the illusion "ignorance is bliss" anymore! Especially with a baby on the way.

I think the Barbara Cartland book of Etiquette should be essential reading for all Twitter users.

Twitter would be horribly non U, I suspect.

It’s worth reading and then you can decide if she’s a ‘transphobe’ or simply pro women’s safety and dignity.

@disorganisedsecretsquirrel

I very rarely comment on these threads because they are so political but my view (from the non political sidelines is this) If you want to live 'as though you at a woman' then fine I have NO PROBLEM with that' no problem at all.

Live and let live.

However if you do not have ovaries . Do not / or ever have given birth to a child because you do not have a womb because you were born Male .. then you are NOT female. It is a biological FACT.. sorry but it is the truth and nothing can change that.

Doesn't mean you can't live as a female but you can't claim that you are .

That's my opinion do with it what you will. I know this is the pinion of most women I know. (White middle class working female) if that helps !

But can you describe how someone is able to “live as a woman”? Other than by being a biological woman as well as being alive.

I struggle with the concept. The question has been asked by others on many threads but I haven’t seen an explanation.

That made me look up the Barbara Cartland Etiquette Manual. Second hand copies are available online. It looks like an ideal gift!

It is

@TheSingingKettle49

OP I suggest you try looking at all the issues you’ve raised through the eyes of the most vulnerable woman you can imagine, try going into the world and speaking to some people who have not had privileged lives and the ask yourself why you’re so keen to give other people’s rights away just because you personally have no problem with it.

This. A thousand times this

Calling the opinion held by Jo Rowling and 90% of the public controversial is a standard reversal tactic deployed by propagandists.

I think to ‚live as a woman‘ boils down to being perceived as a woman by society. Which is only a thing because society treats men and women so differently, still.