Trying to understand the hate trans people get on here.

[Kelcat9494]

Hello,

Firstly I want to say I am not attacking anyone on this forum and I expect the same respect as we are all entitled to an opinion and I am genuinely interested in the reasons why transgender people get so much hate on here:

Firstly I see a lot about not wanting to share bathrooms with trans women as it's a women's safe space - I don't really understand this because to be honest when I'm sat in the cubicle doing my business, I don't think about the persons genitals next to me, it's all very private as you know. The only thing we'd share is the sinks and I don't see a problem with that really. I did read a post about a abuse survivor not wanting to the share the bathroom with someone with a penis (I'm really sorry that the person went through the abuse but that isn't trans people's fault, the fault is with the abuser alone) but in reality a trans person is more at risk in the bathroom and you have no idea whether they are pre op or post op as again in the bathrooms I've been in we don't show each other our genitalia. They are genuinely just doing their human business in the same room as you so don't understand the problem, actually I suppose people are afraid some odd men would use being transgender as an excuse to use the woman's bathroom but that's not trans women's fault also by this logic if we don't want trans women in the bathroom then we should have transmen in there (either pre op or post op), I've posted some pictures below of transmen and woman, would you really want the trans women in men's bathroom and the transmen in the womens?? (I can only post three but you get my point).

I know JKRowling posted about periods and a lot of people jumped on it to say only women have periods and whatever, this isn't true though is it? Some biological women aren't able to have periods or carry a pregnancy or be able to give birth so if we don't see that as a problem as we recognise it's a biological issue then why is trans-men having a period a problem and trans women not having one an issue? And who actually cares? There's enough tampax to go around, maybe let's focus on making them free for women and transmen as I for one is sick of paying for a "luxury item" I need every month due to no fault of my own.

I can't think of anymore off the top of my head that's been posted but anything in the comments I'm happy to reply to but I genuinely think this forum needs to consider what transgender people actually go through, imagine not feeling like you're in the right body, being attacked and hated for who you are and it's obviously not for fun and games because transgender people actually commit suicide over the issues they face remember #bekind and really think how sharing a bathroom or sharing a tampax would affect you? I don't think you'd kill yourself over it.

OP I wanted to give you for participating in this discussion honestly, thoughtfully and with considered responses. That’s incredibly rare. So thank you for sticking around to read, coming back, clarifying and asking more questions, and most of all admitting quite quickly that that you had initially spoken without fully understanding the many nuances of this subject. It’s rare to see such integrity amongst first time posters on this topic.

Well done OP I agree you have listened to other posters. I came to MN thinking the same as you. After reading some very researched and educated posts and started thinking about it a lot more I have changed my views. I will always respect someone’s choice and pro nouns but I know the truth.

@lgbee Thank you for telling us your story. I'm glad that you have now found some kind of peace with it all.

Many people who are really invested in the whole gender ideology think it's freeing, but it's anything but. It's born out of an incredibly conservative view of what men and women are and wouldn't be out of place today in some extremely religious parts of the world that also have a real problem with homosexuality. I think much of it is also born out of a need to put things into ever smaller boxes, to assign labels to them, to name them. I'm this or I'm that. I see it a lot on Tumblr. I'm this pronoun, this star sign, this particular version of a demi sexuality. I think it's much more freeing to think 'I am biologically a woman......the end'. I think some of these people go round & round in circles trying to fit into a box because they don't feel like their identity is accepted by the world, instead of throwing them away all together.

Also, I can relate to what you said about drag XD I go through phases of it. You wouldn't guess that looking at me, but sometimes I look at beautiful vintage 50s teadresses online I think I would feel like I was dressed in drag if I dressed in that. Like I feel like I would have to have a cutesy personality to go with it....which I don't think I do! .

You could get them to change the goady, untrue title of the thread maybe?

@BaronessBrighterThanYou

You could get them to change the goady, untrue title of the thread maybe?

But then that would seem to cover up the reason the OP, started the thread. I think it should stand as it will draw posters of all opinions in. It has been very interesting reading the OP’s responses to various posters and I have to commend her (?) for reading and taking in the information.

Whatever happened to that old put-down "pigeon-holes are for pigeons!" which used to be said when someone tried to tell another person how someone like them ought to behave?

It was used to say "girls can so play with Meccano!" and "boys are too allowed to dress up as the fairy queen if they want to!" when some interfering person tried to tell someone's child what was suitable or acceptable for their people of their sex.

I wish we had managed to go on moving in that direction instead of the manufacturers realising they could sell twice as many Things if male and female people couldn't ever use (say) irons or toothbrushes or waterbottles that were designed for the other sex, and each of a family had to have a gender-appropriate one of whatever it was. I swear that was the root of this whole complete-divide nonsense that is now rife.

I personally agree that the title should stand. There’s no need to censor that, it’s the position that the OP started from and I think the resultant discussion is more authentic with it left to stand, however inaccurate it might be.

Just an update, I requested for the photos to be removed and the modmin said they have had a look and they think they are fine so they won't be removing them. They did say though that any members concerned can report it to raise their concerns and they'll look at them again. Sorry guys, I tried to get them removed.

... it’s the position that the OP started from...

The word hate is mentioned in the title and in the original post. That original post goes on to list loads of things that you'd expect to see on these boards. None of those things listed could be described as hatred. Perhaps I have missed where OP does give actual examples, if so I'm sorry, I have missed that. Anyone?

If people want the title left as it is fair enough. I think it's dishonest and disingenuous. Tautology?

OP just seen your post. Could you please point to the hatred?

Oh I wouldn’t disagree with you that the title is blatantly incorrect. But it was the OP’s honest and authentic starting point, albeit entirely untrue, so I’m happy for it to stand. But perhaps OP has an opinion on this - if OP would like it changed to more accurately reflect what she was actually saying/asking/thinking, that’s valid too. Or if the majority of posters would like to see it changed I’m happy either way. Just stated my opinion for the record.

I was thinking about the toilet situation the other day and came to a worrying conclusion.

If transwoman have to use the mens toilets as that is their biological sex.

Then transmen have to use the ladies.

Any man could walk in and say they were a transman (biologically a woman) and could therefore unable to be challenged.

I dont know what the answer is but it made me quite uneasy, and I say this as the wife of a transwoman. (Who has a radar key for other reasons, so toilets not a problem)

BaronessBrighterThanYou, I think perhaps reading the thread in between the first post and this page might give a picture of what has been said both by the OP and by others who have asked this question before.

I don't think that the OP has been allowed to alter her original post. She has said more than once that she has tried to do so.

("I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.")

@Kelcat9494 - would you be prepared to share your own biological status on here? I ask because from your first diffident and accommodating response, apologising profusely and promising to rethink and understand, I immmediately had you down as a biological woman. Biological women are trained to apologise and accommodate and backtrack. Men aren't. I'd bet a fortune you are not a transwoman. The transwomen who have come to these threads in the past have shown such male entitlement that we should all shut up and do as we are told, it would be comical if it weren't so dangerous.
Of course you don't have to share but I've yet to meet a transwoman who has these traits because as boys and men, they've not been reared to possess them.

@Justabadwife

I was thinking about the toilet situation the other day and came to a worrying conclusion.

If transwoman have to use the mens toilets as that is their biological sex.

Then transmen have to use the ladies.

Any man could walk in and say they were a transman (biologically a woman) and could therefore unable to be challenged.

I dont know what the answer is but it made me quite uneasy, and I say this as the wife of a transwoman. (Who has a radar key for other reasons, so toilets not a problem)

I think the same. Again, if you look at the first two photos in the op how on earth can anyone say that they are perfectly happy for them to use the ladies toilet because they have XX chromosomes? No one would be able to tell the difference between them and a man pretending to be trans unless they asked for a DNA sample.or to inspect their genitals. People only say it because they are insisting that transwomen use the mens toilets and so the other side of that coin is that they have to say transmen use the ladies toilets.

Again, other arguments are that certain groups of women would be prohibited from using toilets or changing rooms if men might be present - so very religious women or those anxious to avoid men would be ok with the people in the first two pictures being there then because, genetically, they are female? That's patently codswallop isn't it? Anyone who doesn't want to be in the presence of men would see the people who look like the first two pictures as men.

I’ve actually just started reading this board after reading a thread on a gaming forum I am on, wow eu.

It was actually about a ‘gender change’ being available in game but after one woman commented on the difference between sex and gender she got hounded.

And it was very strange. The things she was saying seemed to completely make sense to me, but these two posters in particular acted like she was insane and insulted her constantly.

She was nothing but polite and factual (as far as I could tell).

I didn’t know anything about this issue so am going to start reading up on here (I pm’d her in game and she recommended this part of the forum which I’d never really looked at before).

But from what I could see the rudeness, and strangeness, was coming from the trans side.

OP has given information on the thread that confirms she is female.

Pocketfull86

Did you see the hatred directed at J K Rowling by TRA's (Trans Rights Activists), simply because she was speaking honestly and factually. It was pretty shocking to behold.
I have never witnessed anyone on this forum, saying anything about transgender people, which remotely compares to the bile which has been directed at women by TRA's.

monkeyonthetable Kelcat9494 wrote in the opening post that "I for one is sick of paying for a "luxury item" I need every month due to no fault of my own". She has also written "pressing issues that threaten women as a women, it's correct that we shouldn't set ourselves on fire to keep someone else warm because over the last 100 and odd years we have fought hard for our rights and they shouldn't be taken away, I agree" and "the threats to us as women" and "I want to be an ally to my fellow woman".

I assumed those phrases indicated that she is female.

Oops, sorry for reiteration, ninkanink! I was finding the examples to make sure I had reasons for my opinion, while you were confident enough just to state the fact.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras you said it better than me 😀

If transwoman have to use the mens toilets as that is their biological sex. Then transmen have to use the ladies. Any man could walk in and say they were a transman (biologically a woman) and could therefore unable to be challenged. I dont know what the answer is but it made me quite uneasy, and I say this as the wife of a transwoman. (Who has a radar key for other reasons, so toilets not a problem)

I mean I suppose they could but I think most women can tell the difference between a man and a trans man, it’s not just clothes and hair. Remember that those photos have probably been photoshopped and people often look different in person to still photographs.

@Justabadwife

I was thinking about the toilet situation the other day and came to a worrying conclusion.

If transwoman have to use the mens toilets as that is their biological sex.

Then transmen have to use the ladies.

Any man could walk in and say they were a transman (biologically a woman) and could therefore unable to be challenged.

I dont know what the answer is but it made me quite uneasy, and I say this as the wife of a transwoman. (Who has a radar key for other reasons, so toilets not a problem)

I've been thinking about this to. Where would transwomen and transmen who pass fully as the gender they identify as (to the extent you wouldnt realise they are trans) use the toilet. Do they use the toilet of their birth sex even though they in every sense look and appear to be the opposite gender? Do we just say at that point they use the facilities they identify as? What about post surgery trans, if they no longer have a penis should they then be using the womens toilets? As they are then at risk from sexual attack by men if using the male facilities, particularly if they look in every sense female. Where do we draw the line, and how is that decided? By no means do I think men should have free access into womens spaces and definafely disagree with medicalisation of children specially when it has so many harmful consequences, but i also think consideration needs to be made for post op trans who are no longer passable as their birth gender.

Could we not argue for a form of regulation that post op you would be recognised as your preferred gender and allowed to use their spaces. But preop while still presenting with the sexed anatomy of the opposite gender you would use your sexed facilities. Ultimately at this point it wouldn't be a issue as you wouldn't be able to tell the transman/women apart from men/women? It would also remove the ability of trans status to be used and abused by men to access womens spaces.

@andyoldlabour I haven’t yet, I plan on making a twitter account later to go and have a look around.

From what I have read so far though...I am shocked I’ve never heard of any of this until now. I knew something about trans rights being in the news but just thought good for them.

However I’ve only just found out that ‘trans’ doesn’t even mean what I thought it did! An adult with a mental health condition, like body dysmorphia who needs a lot of therapy and surgery to be comfortable with themselves.

Apparently now it means cross dressers and people who don’t even have dysphoria and they’d even think they are literally the opposite sex from what I could gather from the rude people on the forum.

They talked about something called ‘truscum’ which sounds like what I thought WAS trans and now apparently is awful?

Pocketfull86

You don't need to have a twitter acount to see the post, I have never joined twitter.
Simply Google - j k rowling twitter
or
@j k_rowling