Can white women be allies to BME women?

[missyoumuch]

It feels like while women want black women to prioritize their sex over their race as an identity and seem incapable of accepting that BME women have multiple identities. And they often do not behave as allies insisting that their experiences of sexism mean that they can’t be racist (untrue) or that because women are 50% of the population then women’s issues should supersede ethnic minority issues.

www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/politics/a22717725/what-is-toxic-white-feminism/

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/jun/19/women-deliver-launches-investigation-into-internal-racism-allegations?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

www.cnbc.com/2020/06/19/oped-its-time-for-white-female-executives-to-help-black-women-at-work.html

I actually have only seen one post on AIBU criticising BLMs view on capitalism. I actually get the point about capitalism because capitalism & the way society is built is racist however I'm not sure how we change that system.

Do you have any threads you can link as an example? The search function on the app is crap.

I'm a BAME woman and I don't find labelling all white women as a mass who all do the same thing very helpful.

White women are not all the same, yes of course racist white women exist as do racist white men. I don't find blaming the white women only for society's racism very feminist though, or very fair.

Seems like an odd point for a black feminist to make. Sounds more like the kind of thing a white TRA would say (you can see thousands of examples on Twitter).

@xxyzz tired of the troll hunting. My posting history is open for your review. I’ve been pretending to be a BAME mother of 2 for years apparently, talk about a long con.

You’re not alone in disliking white women op, in fact, you’ve got a lot of company.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8480267/Washington-Post-opinion-editor-says-shes-received-threats-white-men.html

Who knew we were so powerful 🤷‍♀️

I’ve seen a fair few black women pissed at BLM for focusing on black men, such that they are refusing to support the movement. I read what they had to say and I support their right to remove themselves from supporting a movement that they feel is ignoring their needs as black women. They believe BLM is mysoginistic. (That said - they don’t speak for all black women, although I do tend more towards their interpretation in some aspects).
I have also seen reasoned discussion about whether the white people vociferously supporting BLM will actually change anything about their ingrained racism in rl, or whether the social media and March support is lip service to a popular cause. All important questions.
The trans issue is of course inflammatory. It plays into the wider angst around black appropriation and appropriation of womanhood. Neither are acceptable, despite some attempts towards hypocrisy. The use of black transwomen to attempt to portray ‘white feminists’ as right wing racist bigots is ridiculous.

@yinnybun

I actually have only seen one post on AIBU criticising BLMs view on capitalism. I actually get the point about capitalism because capitalism & the way society is built is racist however I'm not sure how we change that system.

Do you have any threads you can link as an example? The search function on the app is crap.

Attached a screen shot.

If we’re talking capitalism and a ‘cure’, I liked the bluestocking article discussing social radicalism (a la BLM) and economical radicalism. I fall more on the economical radicalism side, I’m afraid. And also, sorry, It’s also written by a white feminist. A very sensible one.

White women are not all the same, yes of course racist white women exist as do racist white men. I don't find blaming the white women only for society's racism very feminist though, or very fair.

I agree

I agree with @madwoman1ntheattic

and I will look at that article you referred too

I read the articles. I agree that there is institutionalised racism, which means that black women face both sexism and racism, it is massive.

With regards to BLM or any political/ social justice movement I dont think you need to agree with any organisatiin in its entirety. So therefore women can support BLM whilst disagreeing with TWAW.

I think one of the reasons society is so disjointed us because we have this "for" or "against" culture, which leads to cancel culture, but it is OK to take a nuanced view.

I thought that the Harpers Bazaar article mentioning "tone policing" was really interesting because all the time GC feminists feel that their words are censored. Or worse, we are told to be nice.

It’s never crossed my mind that there is a competition between racism and sexism. They are both shit and equally as important.

helenlewis.substack.com/p/the-bluestocking-woke-capitalism
Have a read op. I’m interested as to your reading, particularly regarding the efficacy of slogans over tangible economical reform.

my personal experience is that in university and the workplace, the womens/feminist networks are very white oriented, and the BAME networks are very male oriented.

I completely see this. Food for thought. I’m sorry so many posters are being defensive and not listening. Tell me more.

White feminism doesn’t work for BAME women which is why it is being rejected as a joke across the middle east /asia / africa.

I think one of the reasons society is so disjointed us because we have this "for" or "against" culture, which leads to cancel culture, but it is OK to take a nuanced view.

I find this current thinking so divisive & unhelpful. There's little room for grey areas. There's lots of past debates and threads on MNs that has changed my opinions on things or made me consider a different viewpoint. Now I find if I express a certain view i'm accused of derailing as above. On a thread about social media posting for BLMs I was accused of strawman for stating if we really cared about BLM we would have a debate about drug use acceptance & leniency amongst the middle classes.

I have seen many posts on MN saying not to support BLM because it’s pro trans which is anti-woman.

blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

I can't support the organisation because I find 'cis' deeply offensive, the centering of trans issues odd (how does that help black people?) and the dismantling of the nuclear family unnecessary (again, how does this help black people?).

That is separate to my belief that black lives matter and racism must be resisted by all of us.

@madwoman1ntheattic that article resonates with some of the issues I have. How many big companies were tweeting & # BLM whilst simultaneously having a higher % of BAME in lower paid jobs as opposed to management. What % of their BAME workforce is on zero hours?How many were doing jobs that exposed them to Covid but were not provided with PPE?

OP is over in AIBU saying 'the trans community supports black women more than white women do' FYI.

Odd, because the transactivist argument that TWAW because black women are women is one of the more racist things I've heard.

My initial reaction is that I don’t really recognise this. Of course there is racism in feminism because racism is systemic and everywhere, but the characterisation of feminists as people who don’t accepts that racism is an issue they should care about and don’t acknowledge that there are different axes of privilege and that white women experience white privilege is not something I’ve really seen. Some of the responses on here have been quite eye opening though - especially the one who claimed that the idea of white privilege is racist?! It’s hard to believe that that person is an active feminist, as everyone who has advocated for women’s rights has heard the old nonsense about how focusing on women is sexist.

I don’t think the quote from another thread about BLM says what the poster is claiming it says, though. The poster in that quote has many varied issues that make her feel BLM is not a movement that represents her views, it’s way more complex than sex v race.

@Miriel that’s how I feel at the moment. Show me that I’m wrong, honestly I’d love to feel like we (BAME women) have genuine allies in white women.

@Quillink so the main issues of BLM which relate to police violence and systemic racism must be put aside because of some of the group’s views on sex and gender?

Anyway I would guess the vast majority of activists aren’t even affiliated to any official BLM group. But people are claiming if you even use the phrase “black lives matter” you’re signing onto anti-women rhetoric.

To me that’s asking BAME women to choose and it feels deeply unfair. I am not a woman more than I am black, I am both.

I think your comment above should say how SOME white women are behaving. Not all. Dont tar us all with the same brush. I'm a white women and I stand up with all my black sisters in whatever they face!

#notallwhitewomen