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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Stephen King retweets JKR

593 replies

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 28/06/2020 18:43

Grin

A Dworkin quote.

Stephen King retweets JKR
OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
JemimaShore · 29/06/2020 23:59

The number of trans sex offenders in UK prison speaks for itself, surely?

60 out of (a known) 125 trans prisoners.

-17 for rape
-13 for indecent images of children
-13 for sexual assault
-9 sexual activity of a child
-7 indecent assault

These are not female crimes. The offending rate for women for sex crime is astronomically low.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/06/2020 00:00

m.youtube.com/watch?v=9NpIy-0_esU

JemimaShore · 30/06/2020 00:00

Sorry - that's 27 for rape. Typo.

Kaeleytriller · 30/06/2020 00:01

This reply has been deleted

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JemimaShore · 30/06/2020 00:02

I'm just repeating the whole post - the typo I made was too important.

The number of trans sex offenders in UK prison speaks for itself, surely?

60 out of (a known) 125 trans prisoners.

-27 for rape
-13 for indecent images of children
-13 for sexual assault
-9 sexual activity of a child
-7 indecent assault

These are not female crimes. The offending rate for women for sex crime is astronomically low.

DeRigueurMortis · 30/06/2020 00:03

So Male violence....

A couple of years ago a group of seven friends and myself met up for dinner.

Later in the evening one of the group told us she'd started going to therapy.

The reason was her relationship with her partner was in trouble because she was having issues with intimacy following a sexual assault.

Her (then) partner had paid for therapy because it was her responsibility to get over it so he could have the sex life he deserved.

The lack of compassion was breathtaking but the message clear - the impact of male violence against her was her problem to resolve.

End of tale? Actually no.

Following this revelation all the women that night spoke about their experiences of male violence.

Guess how many of us had never experienced it?

None.

Yes, that's right. Every single woman that night had been on the receiving end of male violence.

Yes there were degrees of abuse from rape to a drunken slap or being held tightly whilst shouted out and left with bruises but none were acceptable.

How many of us had reported it?

None.

We're a pretty diverse group of women so put simply other than being female there were no social, economic, academic, racial or cultural factors that explain our experiences.

The common factor is that we were all female.

Men have no idea just how common this is nor how under reported it is.

They've no idea how hard wired it becomes for women to trust your gut and behave "defensively".

So when people advocate that women's safe spaces should be sacrificed to make a minority of men feel better of course I'm going to ask why.

I'm also going ask why are we discussing what a woman is? We know the answer to this question even if In the pursuit of purity and identity politics we want to abandon all scientific evidence.

Why are we not actually discussing what a trans woman is and why they want access to female spaces because those are the key questions?

Are you a TW when you put on a dress and heels? Wear lipstick or indulge in an other deeming trope about what it means to be a woman?

Is because it's a Wednesday and and you feel like a woman today even if your full beard might suggest otherwise.

Self ID isn't limited to people who have transitioned or even intend to transition.

The idea that some men won't exploit this is ridiculous.

Let's also be clear that having a GRC doesn't mean you don't have a fully functional penis.

So what's the bar here? Exactly who apart from women should be in female spaces and participate in female sports?

What's the "magic" that makes some men women and how do we identify them from men wishing to exploit women?

The crux of this issue isn't transphobia it's male violence and the reason men want access to female spaces is either to (ironically) avoid male violence themselves whilst further exposing women to it or perpetrate it.

Kantastic · 30/06/2020 00:03

www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/no-link-between-trans-inclusive-policies-bathroom-safety-study-finds-n911106

Great stuff Robin, thanks for the attempt! I've read that study, I can happily report to you, and it's not worth the paper it's printed on. (I read it on a screen.)

So I specifically asked you for a study that rejects the null hypothesis that transwomen are just as violent as men.

That study takes as its null hypothesis that there is no effect of increased violence from letting transwomen into women's bathrooms. It then writes up its failure to reject the null as if it's an actual result.

You simply can't do that, for reasons which you can look up if you actually care about science. To put the problem in its simplest form: you can't just assume your result and then present as evidence that your assumption is true, the fact that you failed to disprove it. The natural question is "how hard did you actually try to disprove it though?" These researchers are professional TRAs, so we can all draw our own conclusions about that question.

Once again, please find a study that rejects the null hypothesis that transwomen are just as violent as men! Should be really easy given all the motivated researchers out there working on trans issues!

prolefeed · 30/06/2020 00:04

@Ereshkigalangcleg

For our new visitor taking the name of a well known gender critical woman, from a post earlier which they are unlikely to have bothered to read:

Ultimately I want you to understand that my daughter does NOT CONSENT to being seen in a state of undress by a strange male & she does NOT CONSENT to seeing his naked body.

Women DO NOT CONSENT- why is that not enough?

I am unfortunately laughing that ‘kailey’ went straight for the ‘absolutely no proof of transness is required to allow any male access to wherever the fuck they want to go’ though. Grin Sorry ‘kailey’, but you walked right into proving the GC point. Nothing except total capitulation to male demands will ever be enough. Bahaha. Fucking terrifying, but it’s lovely to see it so plainly advertised. There ya go, Ben. ‘Kailey’ isn’t impresses that men should have to provide ID to use the ladies facilities. Fucking eh.
Kaeleytriller · 30/06/2020 00:05

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NotBadConsidering · 30/06/2020 00:06

10 or more pages of responses to people who are posting disingenuous questions on their first day on Mumsnet. Hmm

The sooner that 90 day rule comes in, the better.

prolefeed · 30/06/2020 00:07

Kailey, kailey, why so fixated on peeing?
How do you feel about female prisons? Women’s sports? Rape refuges?
Let’s take a quick tour where exactly you would draw the line for transwomen’s access? Is there a line? At all?

prolefeed · 30/06/2020 00:07

@NotBadConsidering

10 or more pages of responses to people who are posting disingenuous questions on their first day on Mumsnet. Hmm

The sooner that 90 day rule comes in, the better.

Yuuuuup
prolefeed · 30/06/2020 00:08

But in the meantime - sunlight sunlight. Bring it.

Kaeleytriller · 30/06/2020 00:08

@prolefeed

all asking for proof of transness does is target women who don't fit some white european version of what a woman should look like, there are MULTIPLE stories of natal women who have been targeted, harassed and assaulted because they didnt look female enough for someone. in one case a grandmother was sent to a mens prison. so spare me the righteous indignation.

prolefeed · 30/06/2020 00:09

Oh behave. I was called George for 5 years and my 16yo daughter is frequently assumed to be a male. Stop prevaricating and explain why biology doesn’t matter. C’mon.

7Days · 30/06/2020 00:10

Terrible

People shouldn't be sent to the wrong prison for their sex.

Did the officials not know?

Benny10 · 30/06/2020 00:10

[quote Kaeleytriller]@Benny10

You know what actually a third space option would absolutely be the best option. There are reasons not to Trans people use female spaces and there are reasons to let them use female spaces

and what of GNC women who look to masculine? they just collateral damage, like Kathleen Stock thinks they should be?[/quote]
Every solution seems to end up having someone as "collateral damage"

BubblyBarbara · 30/06/2020 00:10

"JKR unfollowing SK and deleting her tweets in support of him because he said TWAW proves she is specifically anti-trans in case you were under the impression that someone who writes for a living was just badly explaining a fair point"

Kaeleytriller · 30/06/2020 00:11

@prolefeed

Kailey, kailey, why so fixated on peeing? How do you feel about female prisons? Women’s sports? Rape refuges? Let’s take a quick tour where exactly you would draw the line for transwomen’s access? Is there a line? At all?
because restrooms were where so much of this started. especially in the US where it has been proven that right wing groups completely fabricated stories of trans women attacking people in the restrooms. as for sports, no man will pretend to be trans just to win. and you all know it. as for rape centers, a case CAN be made, as long as its a proportional response as required by the EA, and as for prisons, again it has to be a proportional response with all safeguarding followed. which in the white case, they were not.
prolefeed · 30/06/2020 00:12

Biology matters, Kails. No grannies in men’s prisons. No penises in female prisons.

prolefeed · 30/06/2020 00:13

Proportional response? Like nailing rats to shelter doors and removing their funding?
A case can be made? Oh goody. I’ll let Vancouver Rape Relief know. I’m sure they haven’t tried that. 🤷‍♀️

JemimaShore · 30/06/2020 00:13

is target women who don't fit some white european version of what a woman should look like

What utter tosh.

Did you miss Lamahaha's post upthread? It wouldn't surprise me - ploppers rarely read the whole thread - just think they can swoop in and surprise us with arguments they think we've never seen before. This is to do with being FEMALE. Or do you only think white women look/are female? Confused

Kaeleytriller · 30/06/2020 00:14

Benny10

Trans women have been using the loo with cis women for years. and locker rooms, etc. GC folk always come out with the lie that they can always tell who is trans. yet fail that metric over and over again.

Kantastic · 30/06/2020 00:14

and what of GNC women who look to masculine? they just collateral damage, like Kathleen Stock thinks they should be

I'm sure if any GNC real women look so male-like that women are frightened when they go into the women's changing rooms, then they would be absolutely delighted to have more third spaces available. Real women tend not to like upsetting or frightening people.

prolefeed · 30/06/2020 00:15

#girlslikeus
No.
No.
No.
No penises in women’s changing rooms, rape centres, sports teams, prisons.
No.