Women have a huge privilege compared to trans women

[IDanielRadcliffe]

www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/transgender-diary-women-have-huge-privilege-compared-transwomen/

I think DT manages to be both racist and sexist this week.

@TBHno

I do wonder what The Telegraph's goal is here. Are they deliberately playing it dumb? There's no way their readers will be swallowing this rubbish.

There are rarely any comments allowed on an article by D Thomas, and if there are, they are closed very rapidly. In the BTL comments on an article about Baroness Nicholson today, some of us commented on D Thomas, and it was not favourable at all.

The DT is rapidly losing subscribers as it is veering towards becoming the Guardian. If DT subscribers wanted the Guardian, they wouldn't be subscribing to the DT!

The Twitter response to DT is not favourable.

Male person has to permanently focus on trying to appear unthreatening. Exactly what you want in someone you’re forced to share public loos with.

How convenient (not skilfully manoeuvred at all, no) to be able to call transphobia when someone happens to react to you being threatening and behaving abnormally. No gaslighting to see here folks, move along!

yes, why is it these types always seem to transition to the barbie doil type of women? I have yet to see a MTF transition to a lady wearing jeans, glasses and low heeled shoes who rides a motorbike.

There are TW more like the latter - I think you don't see them because they're the ones who are trying to quietly get on with their lives, not trans activists.

no amount of oestrogen can dim my passion for American football.

I work tangentially with American Football (I don't get American sports at all - just when you're getting into it, they stop and reset everything. A 3 hour NFL game has just 11 minutes of action!). It has a huge racism problem - google 'running back NFL' or 'wide receiver NFL'. Now look at 'quarterback NFL' - the glory position - see what you suddenly notice......

Personally, and despite my oestrogen, I much prefer MotoGP (or if I really have to watch a ball sport, football)

Let me get this straight though. Women are privileged over transwomen, because transwomen get abuse for being transwomen but really they should be abused for being women? And it's hurtful they're abused for the wrong reason. Is that the essence of the argument?

More the question is where are the 60 year old women transitioning to men after a lifetime of feeling they might be men. Finally liberated from careers and child rearing to be their true selves?

It doesn’t happen. Ever.

We all know why men transition.

Women have a huge privilege compared to trans women

But but but... I thought transwomen are women? So they have the same huge privilege surely?

That was my understanding too but do you know what I want. The same privileges as men please.

Why is it that women specifically have a privilege that TW don't?

Don't non-trans men enjoy equivalent privileges by virtue of not being trans?

I can't read the article as it's behind a paywall, but if the privilege they're talking about is non-trans privilege, why single out women, who are already hugely marginalised, as not experiencing trans oppression?

Outside of misogyny, what reason can there possibly be for singling out women specifically as benefiting from non-trans privilege?

I don't know how someone so self absorbed can also be so oblivious.

As a white, middle class educated man DT had a lot of privilege for a long time, now they are transgender they feel that they have less privilege, but they will never know how it feels to grow up female and like many TRAs doesn't bother to put in the work to try to understand. Therefore they feel like they have less prilivege than women when they actually have less prilvilege (are treated differently) then they previously had.

Most gender disphoric transgender people understand this because they have thought long and hard about it. When your transition is just about a fetish and you can't actually humanise that which you aspire to be then you will never understand.

Most gender disphoric transgender people understand this because they have thought long and hard about it

Plus most gender dysphoric people have been gender non-conforming, so (sadly) are used to not fitting in and being socially disadvantaged. When you've been a privileged white twat male like DT prior to transition, it must come as a hell of a shock not to be at the top of the tree, in terms of how society treats you. Some AGP TW seem to get off on this - fetishing women's subservience - but presumably not all.

@LonginesPrime I posted the entire article on page 1 of this thread. so it's there.

Let me get this straight though. Women are privileged over transwomen, because transwomen get abuse for being transwomen but really they should be abused for being women? And it's hurtful they're abused for the wrong reason. Is that the essence of the argument?

I think you've got that right, except that in this case it seems to be more that transwomen worry about being abused for being transwomen, and obviously women who are abused for being women have huge privilege over transwomen who have to worry about maybe being abused one day.

Take my privilege. Fucking take it.

This person does it deliberately. It's a beautiful illustration of the extremist TRA mindset. They get off on these reversals, the more outrageous and upsetting to women the better.

What they are too vain or oblivious to seem to realise is that they are unlikely to experience street harassment as they're too old to be of interest to men.

Yep. One of the few advantages of being an older woman is that the verbal harassment tails off. Doesn't make you any less vulnerable to assault, of course.

How desperately narcissistic do you have to be to write an entire article based on not having been a victim? He’s full on jumping up and down going ‘pick me!’ ‘Do it more!’ ‘Harder!’
AGP narcissism at full pelt.

This.

God these men really infuriate me. Privilege???
Like some previous posters mentioned, i was harassed by boys all through primary school, i was told it was a compliment. It made me very withdrawn and uncomfortable around the male sex pretty much all my life. I have struggled with low self esteem, never feeling valued as a person. It seemed to me the only thing of value about me was my 'pretty' face and body. I have never liked attention and I'm not sure if that is my personality or if it was a reaction to all the unwanted attention i was given from a very young age.

Now a mother, and in my forties invisible for the most part to men.........i have never felt so happy, confident and the best part is i love and value myself like never before.

It is something no man who puts on a dress and make up will ever experience and / or understand. How dare these men say they know what a woman is and how a woman feels. They have no clue.

Thing is that 'trans' is based on deception, even if people know they're being deceived and try to play along with it. 'Gender' means stereotypes associated with a biological sex. People have, rightly or wrongly, particular emotional associations with each biological sex. So a man 'presenting as the female gender' is essentially trying to play a trick, and make people respond to him as though he's female, and as though the female stereotypes are relevant. What this writer is saying is that women are privileged because we don't need to deceive.

Transwomen face sky-high rates of harassment, abuse and violence. It hasn’t happened to me yet. But it only has to happen once, the possibility is always there

Well it has happened numerous times to me, I'd actually hate to sit down and try and count them all including 2 serious incidents which have affected me but so many day to day crap. I guess that would be my privilege as a woman. If I write anything else I want to write I suspect this will be deleted so I'll leave it with my dubious privilege.

Pile of sexist agp twaddle.

They are the ones with privilege. They weren't brought up as women. People/parents/teachers raised them and reacted to them as male (obviously) so they never back down. They want to be heard so they shout louder and are heard. They weren't socialised to be nice or to avoid conflict so they shout over women, tell us we're wrong and we are bad and we are privileged.

Ha!

Thanks @thegcatsmother!

The "privilege" is meant to be that people look at me, or any of us, and see a woman. Well, yes, because that's what I/we are and those people have working eyeballs. That's not a "privilege" any more than people being able to see that I'm short is a privilege.

’Transwomen face sky-high rates of harassment, abuse and violence. It hasn’t happened to me yet. But it only has to happen once, the possibility is always there’

I think I was 11 the first time I was flashed at by the classic man in a raincoat. Getting home from school as a teenager I had comments shouted at me by adult men from cars and vans. By the time I was in sixth form I’d had a random man in a packed bar - filled with office workers not teenaged boys- stick his hand up my skirt and try to force his fingers inside me as I waited with my friends. I’ve had to get myself and my friends out of situations where men have turned agressive and abusive in a split second because we didn’t want a drink or their attention. As a 40 something I can’t get through a week of running outdoors without having abuse shouted at me from men sitting outside the pub (in non lockdown times) or driving by. I’m an average older woman wearing loose 3/4 length trousers and a loose long sleeved running top.

I’ve been lucky to live in nice, leafy, suburban areas. I don’t think my experiences are exceptional. You get used to it over the years. I still text the driver’s number or name to a friend if I get in a taxi alone. If I have to get the bus I still sit downstairs near the driver if possible. I still walk with my keys in my hand if I’m out alone after dark.

The "privilege" is meant to be that people look at me, or any of us, and see a woman.

And on the flip side, that they don't see these male people as women for the same reason.

The "privilege" is meant to be that people look at me, or any of us, and see a woman.

Does that mean I'm under-privileged because I am mistaken for a man from time to time?