Rebecca Wrong-Daily Sacked

[Sexnotgender]

For apparently sharing something anti-Semitic.

Oh dear how sad.

The reality of a modern Jewish state, that frankly, performs no better and no worse than many other Western states, and certainly no worse than many non-Western states, yet comes in for an outsize critique from the left

How many modern Western States act like the Israeli Government have towards people living under their control?

And if so, to ensure that male anti-Semites and/or incompetents in the Labor Party are held to the same standards as those applied to women

In any party. Not just Labour.
And I guess you would say the same for Islamophobes, racists etc?

But hey, we have someone who is a Prime Minister who has said stuff in the past that is perceived by some as racist, homophobic.

But that is 'whataboutery' though.

@Justhadathought

Are they also secretly anti-Semitic - maybe, but given that they generally also talk about Jeff Bezos, or have issues with other types of colonialist powers, etc it doesn't make a lot of sense to accuse them of it on spec

If you define anti-semitism as being hateful towards individual Jewish people, then no.......

But if you define anti-semitism as making sweeping conspiratorial/negative generalisations about the group that is "Jews", then yes!

I'm not sure what you mean. That's exactly what they aren't doing.

If someone makes statements about Jewish capitalists that are the same kinds of statements they make about other capitalists, and it's not about any of them being Jewish, British, or Brazillian, it's about them being capitalists.

How many modern Western States act like the Israeli Government have towards people living under their control?

Mine, for one. Plenty of work to do in my own nation, without blaming 'the Jews' for a brutal police murder in another country.

However, in case I wasn't clear, I think it's entirely acceptable to critique the Israeli government, and many Israeli Jews do so.

@chomalungma

And if so, to ensure that male anti-Semites and/or incompetents in the Labor Party are held to the same standards as those applied to women

In any party. Not just Labour.
And I guess you would say the same for Islamophobes, racists etc?

But hey, we have someone who is a Prime Minister who has said stuff in the past that is perceived by some as racist, homophobic.

But that is 'whataboutery' though.

I don't know who you think you're talking to - by your tone I suspect you think you're addressing a Tory.

You might want to reign in those assumptions.

We absolutely need more women in power and I’d never usually rejoice in something like this. But we only need more women in power if they represent the interests and needs of women. RLB cheerfully threw women under the bus and that’s unforgivable.

Er, we only need people of any description in power if they're not bigots.

"melia*

Rein. You rein in.

I don't know who you think you're talking to - by your tone I suspect you think you're addressing a Tory

I am talking to you. I don't know you from anyone.

And yes, anyone should be held to the same standards.
In any party.

@Melia100

The idea of a modern Jewish state

The reality of a modern Jewish state, that frankly, performs no better and no worse than many other Western states, and certainly no worse than many non-Western states, yet comes in for an outsize critique from the left.

If there is evidence that Minneapolis police were trained in 'how to kneel on someone's neck so as to murder them successfully' by the Israeli secret service, then that evidence can be published.

By making this a story about Israel, however, we deflect from the US-specific issue of a militarised police force. While it's fashionable, in certain circles, to blame Israel for many things, Israel-the-nation-state is not responsible for how the US sees fit to police its citizens.

Sure, I can think of plenty of states that do very bad things on a large scale. But generally people aren't called bigots for making criticisms of those individuals or the actions of the state.

The underlying discomfort the left has with Israel is exactly what SenslessUbiquity says though, it's the idea that ethnicity and nationality are married so very closely. That's actually pretty consistent across the left.

I don't think the kneeling business is itself relevant, it's a widely used technique and even if it was taught in a series of workshops as described, it's been taught on other occasions by other people too. What is possibly worth thinking about is that it has become an acceptable technique in policing, internationally.

generally people aren't called bigots for making criticisms of those individuals or the actions of the state

Generally people don't invoke the spectre of those other nations having a hand in totally unrelated events, and tend to critique the governments of those nations, rather than the idea of the nation state itself.

Rein. You rein in

Typos happen.

Generally people don't invoke the spectre of those other nations having a hand in totally unrelated events, and tend to critique the governments of those nations, rather than the idea of the nation state itsel

When people talk about countries when they criticise them, it's not the countries themselves they are criticising but the Government.

Like the US, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia etc..

You don't hear people say 'The Russian Government'. People say Russia.

But with Israel, people prefer it if they say the Israeli Government.

people prefer it if they say the Israeli Government

Yes.

Not difficult.

And entirely reasonable given the circumstances.

Good - it’s all a step in the right direction for the Labour Party.

She called women’s place a hate group

Adios

Go safely 😉

@Goosefoot
"If someone makes statements about Jewish capitalists that are the same kinds of statements they make about other capitalists, and it's not about any of them being Jewish, British, or Brazillian, it's about them being capitalists."

Nice try.

If it's about them being capitalists there's no need to mention their religion.

@chomalungma et al, can you not see that by focusing more attention on Israel than on other states, particularly given the murderous results of anti-semitism over the centuries, that it might arouse the suspicion that the intent of the Israel-obsessed is not as clean as you say?

Leaving aside that Jews have lived continuously on the land for many millennia, why do I never hear people going on about Canada, America, Australia being “occupying powers”? The position of many First Nations in Canada is that the government has taken unceded territory (& yet I don’t see the Squamish Nation bombing our buses or pizza parlours). Why is the focus and the criticism disproportionately reserved for Israel? If it smells like an anti-Semite, generally it is, no matter how people try to dress it up.

You asked for examples of positives happening for Palestinians in the region, you were given many specific examples and you waved them away. You were told of people’s experience of anti-semitism on the left, you waved it away.

It’s virus, anti-semitism, not everyone knows when they’ve caught it.

Israel has broken more UN resolutions than any other member state. It has also been condemned in more UN resolutions than the rest of the world combined. That is why it is critised so much. It has built a wall around Gaza and refuses to allow the import of baby formula. UNICEF also criticised its use of solitary confinement and 'inhumane' treatment of children. Why is it anti-Semitic to say this? There are many Jewish groups in Israel who criticise these very points are they anti-Semitic and not the 'right kind of jews'? I would not assume someone was anti British because they criticised Britain's invasion of Iraq. It seems strange for a people on a feminist board to be jumping on the the 'burn the witch' bandwagon.

Leaving aside that Jews have lived continuously on the land for many millennia, why do I never hear people going on about Canada, America, Australia being “occupying powers

When did Israel invade the West Bank?
1967

So very recently

ou asked for examples of positives happening for Palestinians in the region, you were given many specific examples and you waved them away

I didn't ask about posiitives for Palestinians - someone else did.

ou were told of people’s experience of anti-semitism on the left, you waved it away

There certainly are examples of anti-semitism by some people on the far left - and as I said, no one who I know on the left has ever expressed those views. I certainly don't subscribe to them.

Israel was created. The Government then decided to invade and occupy the West Bank. How is that justifiable?

Or is it 53 years ago so that's ok now?

It seems strange for a people on a feminist board to be jumping on the the 'burn the witch' bandwagon.

Oh dear. Prone to hyperbole, are we?

I don't think its a surprise that women aren't upset to see a politician who said that there is no material conflict between womens and trans rights and demanded if you think otherwise you are a bigot and should get out the party - leave the shadow cabinet.

RLB wasn't sacked for some slightly dodgy retweet in isolation. She refused to take down the tweet when directly instructed to by the leader of her party.

The context was that she'd been warned of a zero tolerance approach to the subject and her job performance was poor.

I'm generally leery of attempts to conflate criticism of the Israeli government with antisemitism (I've been on the receiving end of such deflection) but the sacking of RLB has nothing to do with the Israeli government and if posters keep derailing the thread to discuss their policies then I think it's not unreasonable to suspect them of antisemitic motivation.

It’s virus, anti-semitism, not everyone knows when they’ve caught it

Are you calling me anti-semitic?

I have been to Auschwitz and seen what happened to the Jewish population of Europe. Read the stories. Seen what hate does. Seen the effect of propaganda and the absolute horror of it all. Seen Prague and the Jewish area there - which suffered awfully. Been to the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington. Been to Israel. I know what anti-semitism is. I know what people say, what people think. The hatred of Jews, the things people do, the things people are made to believe.

Absolutely awful and I don't subscribe to any of that. Anti-semitism is awful. Hate kills.

I do have a massive issue with the way Israel (and any country) occupies somewhere and then treats the people of that place with poor human rights. I remember watching Gaza being targeted with planes and artillery fire. Israeli tanks and soldiers firing at stone throwers.

When I was young, I remember seeing the effect of artillery fire on civiillians. I was in a village that had been destroyed by artillery and had seen the mortar shell that blew a child's head off. That stuck with me.

It should be allowed to be able to criticise the action of the Israeli Government, its military, its police etc without people like you calling me anti-semitic.

That detracts from the anti-semitism that is out there. That killed millions of people in the past.

Hatred of others is awful. Treating people like they don't matter, like animals is awful.

And I will stand up for that and call it out when I see it.

@donquixotedelamancha "her job performance was poor"

This article from Huffpost suggests otherwise.

This seems to be the key to it: "Rather than the original tweet, Long-Bailey’s refusal to do what her leader wanted was what sealed her demise. “If you challenge the leader like that, what do you expect?” said one frontbencher."

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-rebecca-long-bailey_uk_5ef50f91c5b6acab283efcb2

@chomalungma there is a vast difference between criticising Israel’s human rights records and retweeting a completely unfounded allegation about something Israel is said to have done

I’m a committed feminist, partly Jewish and don’t like Israel’s human rights record at all. I still think it was right she was sacked