John Cleese defends JKR

[TheKrakening3]

Thanks mate. The more the merrier.

This put my in mind of the fact that Cleese and the rest of the MP guys were told by the one of the directors (I think?) at the BBC that they would never be picked up for a comedy sketch show now. Because they are too white and male, basically.

Hmm.

The Pythons aren't daft.

They might have been 'too white and male' but they also often wore dresses and played women characters.

I think modern pythons might have been able to find a way to sell themselves to an ultra woke BBC.

I refer to Cleese's original tweet...

Maybe that's exactly the point he's making that the diversity policy has become farcical and exploitable in a way thats actually hilarious rather than being arrogant and suggesting its not fair and modern pythons wouldn't get a shout? If the only way modern pythons would get a shout is by putting on a dress occasionally and declaring themselves trans when it was already part of their act, why wouldn't they?

It's diversity policy so much that's the problem. It's diversity policy that has lost the plot and sight of its actual point.

I would say comedy in general, like a number of areas today, does have a problem with diversity of thought. It appears as a comedian you have to, at least superficially, subscribe to the usual lefty package deal i.e. support all the appropriate causes and marginalised groups, while denouncing or mocking all the approved categories (like pale, white, 'gammon' male).

I can't think of any well-known British comedian these days who is openly Conservative / right-wing. Is there anyone? I'm happy to be corrected, but struggling to think of any. Unless they are quite well established from years ago and wealthy. I don't think newcomers can afford to take such a risk.

It's the same trend in arts, academia, Hollywood etc. You must subscribe wholesale to the lefty package deal and you cannot be openly Conservative or right-wing otherwise it could affect your career and opportunities. It's terribly unfashionable to not toe the general line in these areas. I seriously doubt everyone who outwardly supports the package deal is genuinely left wing. Many will have to give the impression they are to avoid being 'cancelled'.

On the right there's Geoff Norcott. But he's a minor figure and struggles to get more of a presence on the BBC than occasional appearances on Radio 4. Which cause large amounts of whining on social media about "why do I have to listen to right wing views?".

Simon Evans is similar but is pretty careful in what he says so he appears more slightly more occasionally.

There's also Andrew Lawrence but he got cancelled years ago for wrong think* and the BBC won't touch him with a bargepole these days.

• On 25 October 2014, Lawrence wrote a lengthy post on his official Facebook page drawing attention to a perceived rise in "'political' comedians cracking cheap and easy gags about UKIP, to the extent that it's got hack, boring and lazy very quickly" and described such comedians as being "out of touch, smug, superannuated, overpaid TV comics with their cosy lives in their west-London ivory towers taking a supercilious, moralising tone, pandering to the ever-creeping militant political correctness of the BBC". Although having previously appeared on several comedy programmes on the channel, he went on to describe "liberal back-slapping panel shows like Mock the Week" as consisting of "aging, balding, fat men, ethnic comedians and women-posing-as-comedians, sit congratulating themselves on how enlightened they are about the fact that UKIP are ridiculous and pathetic".

The problem for the BBC is that the new, diverse, comedy, just isn't funny. Unless you think sneering at Brexit-voters hilarious.

the funny thing is that the BBC has committed to allocating £100 million to promote more diverse and inclusive content. Somehow, I think that won't include broadening it's spectrum to include right wing views. Just more 'comedians' like Nish Kumar, god help us.

the funny thing is that the BBC has committed to allocating £100 million to promote more diverse and inclusive content. Somehow, I think that won't include broadening it's spectrum to include right wing views.

And if thats the case, it ironically, invites people to take the piss out of the system by saying they are something they are not.

Given I know someone who got a job in the police force by saying he was gay as it was the only way they would recruit him at the time due to diversity quotas, I'm very much of the opinion that people will do anything to bypass the rules ESPECIALLY if you are not allowed to question identity because thats offensive. (And this makes me wonder if this is EXACTLY WHY you aren't allowed to question identity).

If the system encourages gamifying it to get an advantage and get around the rules, in my experience they will just because they can.

I'm fairly sure that John Cleese is aware of this problem too.

I'm very much of the opinion that people will do anything to bypass the rules ESPECIALLY if you are not allowed to question identity because thats offensive. (And this makes me wonder if this is EXACTLY WHY you aren't allowed to question identity).

I'm sure of it. They know people are and will be taking the piss.

I'd say that comment from Andrew Lawrence is spot on.

You might smile at this then Ereshkigalangcleg:

twitter.com/andrewlawrence/status/1269686157090193408

Andrew Lawrence has been making mischievous videos for twitter during lockdown.

@RedToothBrush

This put my in mind of the fact that Cleese and the rest of the MP guys were told by the one of the directors (I think?) at the BBC that they would never be picked up for a comedy sketch show now. Because they are too white and male, basically.

Hmm.

The Pythons aren't daft.

They might have been 'too white and male' but they also often wore dresses and played women characters.

I think modern pythons might have been able to find a way to sell themselves to an ultra woke BBC.

I refer to Cleese's original tweet...

Maybe that's exactly the point he's making that the diversity policy has become farcical and exploitable in a way thats actually hilarious rather than being arrogant and suggesting its not fair and modern pythons wouldn't get a shout? If the only way modern pythons would get a shout is by putting on a dress occasionally and declaring themselves trans when it was already part of their act, why wouldn't they?

It's diversity policy so much that's the problem. It's diversity policy that has lost the plot and sight of its actual point.

Yes, I think they could have though I somewhat wonder if they'd want to. But the BBC guy who said that the BBC wouldn't pick them up was being deadly serious I think.

I think most diversity policy shortcuts are mistakes - they tend not to work long term because they don't address the underlying problem, they instil a culture of overt racialisation, and they often disadvantage the people they are supposed to help when you look at long term outcomes. Their vision of diversity is usually quite narrow. And absolutely they can be gamed by those who have advantage.

Most comedy doesnt age well.
It subverts the norms. When the norms change, the subversion looks different. It can look as if its colluding, in a way

@7Days

Most comedy doesnt age well. It subverts the norms. When the norms change, the subversion looks different. It can look as if its colluding, in a way

Yes, it can... but still.. how do we get to a place where people can watch something that was actually antiracist or antisexist, but conclude that it was the opposite? Like people who watch Fawlty Towers and think it is condoning Basil's attitude to and treatment of Manuel? Or normalising it?

I think there has been some odd change to the way people understand comedy.

It's all about whether people are motivated to bring people together and foster mutual understanding or whether they are motivated to sow division and separate people into good and bad.

I did nauticant

@nauticant

You might smile at this then Ereshkigalangcleg:

twitter.com/andrewlawrence/status/1269686157090193408

Andrew Lawrence has been making mischievous videos for twitter during lockdown.

"The mighty flowing fist of male feminism..."

He's not the most subtle of comedians, but that line is gold!

Though on watching more of his videos, he's a bit of a right-wing equivalent of Nish Kumar. Preaching to the choir.

A good comedian should be able to poke fun at someone in power in such a way that even the people who share that person's political views can see their own weaknesses and laugh at themselves. There should be an element of "ouch, yes, you've got me bang to rights" about it.

No matter how good the comedian, there is a growing group of people who are too self righteous to ever admit that, though.
They will never admit their worldview has any weakness, the dogma overrides self awareness.

Maybe it's not a growing group, maybe the percentage has remained steady throughout history, they just flick from ideology to ideology.

The problem for the BBC is that the new, diverse, comedy, just isn't funny.

I was watching some vintage Newman and Baddiel last night - by today’s standards it was straying close to the line. But, you know, funny.

BBC is meant to be impartial- what a joke