Newsnight Tonight - Tavistock Clinic concerns

[rogdmum]

On at 22:45

Tweet: twitter.com/bbcnewsnight/status/1273702696076410882?s=21

Says:

TONIGHT: #Newsnight has seen evidence that staff at England's only children’s NHS gender clinic say their concerns over the care provided were ‘shut down’.

Clinicians reported worries that some patients were referred onto a gender transitioning pathway too quickly.

22:45

@twoHopes

I was thinking about creating a website that lists (with quotes) all the public figures who have supported Mermaids/Tavistock. Just to put the pressure on those people and say "really? Do you really support this? Because we will not forget and you will be held to account".

I'm a bit worried about lawsuits though - does anyone have any idea about whether you could get sued for this?

My idea would be to just take a photo, the name, the title (e.g. Emma Watson, Actress) and a quote where they've supported Mermaids or retweeted them or whatever.

If you have actual sources for those direct quotes, clear screenshots of Twitter or social media posts etc, then I don't see why it would be problematic. I have no expertise in the area though.

Have you seen the work by the group 'Led by Donkeys'? They do something similar to politicians, although I think they only use Twitter posts.

Or you can keep hold of all the evidence, and once there are legal and criminal investigations into some of these organisations and key players, those quotes will be even more useful.

Absolutely agree with we will not forget.

TwoHopes* sorry for getting your name wrong!

No problem. I just wonder if a website like that would make these celebrities and public figures think twice about supporting Mermaids/Tavistock and force them to actually look into it. And if not then we will at least have the ammo ready when it all finally blows up and everyone starts backpedalling and deleting their tweets.

The tide definitely seems to have turned on Twitter looking at John Cleese's feed

@twoHopes I think that’s a great idea.

But I’m a bit of a salty cow.

At least a list of their famous supporters on here for the time being with their words of support.

Archive online stuff or take screenshots of tweets. They will definitely delete their 'supportive' messages and all those self-righteous condemnations.

@twoHopes

I was thinking about creating a website that lists (with quotes) all the public figures who have supported Mermaids/Tavistock. Just to put the pressure on those people and say "really? Do you really support this? Because we will not forget and you will be held to account".

I'm a bit worried about lawsuits though - does anyone have any idea about whether you could get sued for this?

My idea would be to just take a photo, the name, the title (e.g. Emma Watson, Actress) and a quote where they've supported Mermaids or retweeted them or whatever.

I like this idea. Lots of us have screenshots from Twiiter.

I have ones of police forces supporting Mermaids, Labour party members, Mermaids and Aimee Challenor etc.

It would also be useful to have a resource bank of newspaper articles, Newsnight clips etc. with Mermaids, Gids, the Webberlys etc. on record.

Don't know where you'd begin, but I'd be happy to start with Anna Friel's tweets or the infamous Jelly Baby training by Jan the Mermaids trainer!

Thanks Scrimpshaw
@Siablue Unfortunately he is now over the age of 18, so all therapy has stopped and he now is going to refer himself to the adult service where no therapy is given, straight into medical intervention as I understand it. To be fair, although his therapist wasn’t pushing him into anything I don’t think we resolved anything either, so the report is all a bit wishy washy.
I’m scared to death to be honest, he’s off to uni in September so I think I’ll be losing any ‘calming influence’ over him that I may have had and he’s straight into the world of wokeness that is student life.

There should be a Panorama on this. They have a story either way

There was one last year I think.

Ok I'm gonna make the website. I've done a first pass of the last 6 months of Mermaids Twitter and found Emma Watson, Jameela Jamil (obvs), Princes Trust, Dr Ranj, Channel 4, Liberty, Starbucks, Jade (Little Mix), Sam Smith, John Barrowman, Lorraine Kelly and a few more.

I'll make a website and add a submission form for everyone else to add to it. I'll start a new thread when it's made (probs early next week some time) so we can collect responses.

Let's name and shame!

Whilst Mermaids / Susie Green, GIDS / Polly Carmichael & Stonewall / Ruth Hunt have been at the public forefront of recent trans right activism it is very important, in my opinion, to recognise how far back the lobbying goes and to be aware that those (both individuals & organisations) who have had the most influence may not be as visible.

In the UK & Ireland The Beaumont Society, Press For Change, A:gender, GIRES, Gendered Intelligence, Scottish Trans Alliance, Charing Cross GIC, GenderGP, TELI, TENI etc have all played substantive roles contributing to the systemic Safeguarding failure to protect children identified as transgender.

relevent threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398737-We-re-Still-Here-Conference-8th-September-A-report-from-the-inside

Newsnight gave details of their 'actionline' help page at the end of the feature.... which links to Mermaids.

@twoHopes

I think the anorexia analogy is an interesting one.

Yes absolutely. I've said this before on here but I have a friend who is a very senior child mental health professional in the UK who believes the girls presenting as trans would have presented as anorexic 20 years ago. He tried to bring this up a few times and was immediately shut down as transphobic and threatened with losing his job.

There's so much going on here. It's not just Polly Carmichael, it's not even just the Tavi and Mermaids. It's full scale institutional capture of all the organisations that have influence on children. The BBC, schools, GPs, local councils...the list is endless.

@twoHopes it really resonates with me that you say this, and is something I’ve thought for a long time - and agreeing with others who’ve mentioned this.

I suffered a lot of mental illness as a teen, and though not anorexic I was in psychiatric units for extended periods of time with anorexic teenagers. Their stories and feelings towards their bodies echo the trans stories I hear now so strongly. However, their dysphoria wasn’t encouraged or facilitated. There was no ‘oh you see your body as huge even though it’s not, here help with a diet plan to lose more weight’ it was about getting them better and accepting their bodies. Why is the only option for young people with gender dysphoria absolute affirmation? Why no effort to help them feel better about who they are instead of medicalisation and lies about being able to change sex?

Along with this I remember well the reluctance of the professionals I saw (as a 13 year old initially) to give me strong psychiatric medicine. It was absolutely not the first port of call, despite not being so life altering as the ones given to trans teens. I did eventually get (a lot of) medication and thankfully so as it saved my life, I no longer take anything, but the speed at which medications appear to dolled to young people with gender issues is really alarming.

risefromyourgrave, I'm sorry, you must be so worried. You can still be there as a calming presence for him, even at a distance. I don't think we ever really stop needing our mums. And you never know what the state of play will be by September. Things are changing ...

BBC has been used by trans rights' activists to promote misinformation & trans ideology to parents and children. It will need to hold a thorough inquiry to establish the extent.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3296433-BBC-Bias-Collecting-Examples-here

I have complained to the BBC, Merry.

I bet Mermaids can't believe their luck at those potential referrals via Auntie (or is it Uncle?)

Reminder that this person writes for The Independent.

Just heard an item on pm news programme on r4. A lot about LGTB groups wanting self ID etc. How many L groups i wonder? But not a word about the newsnight revelations. Why?

I think anyone can write for the Independent. They are looking for low cost clicks. It's one step above "You won't believe what random child star looks like now!!!"

"You won't believe what shite CursedE has written now!"

@SunsetBeetch

Reminder that this person writes for The Independent.

What is that person’s point? They seem to be comparing numbers referred per year with the total population of the country.

And what do they mean by ‘1% ought to be trans if statistics hold’?

I think stonewall argue about 1% of people are trans, which with around 700,000 people born each year would produce about 7000 trans people each year.

Just heard an item on pm news programme on r4. A lot about LGTB groups wanting self ID etc. How many L groups i wonder? But not a word about the newsnight revelations. Why?

Interesting priorities aren't they?

'LGBT groups and celebrities call for gender law reform'
By Ben Hunte
LGBT correspondent
29 July 2019

(extract)
More than 100 LGBT organisations and celebrities are urging the government to reform UK gender identity laws, the BBC has learned.

Following a public consultation - which had 100,000 responses - changes were promised, but the government has continually missed its own deadlines.

The Government Equalities Office has insisted any potential reforms must be carefully planned. (continues)

The letter to the PM was started by Paul Martin OBE, chief executive of LGBT Foundation, who said: "We have come together to reiterate how critical these reforms are to removing the barriers that trans and non-binary people face every day.

"By introducing new legislation to allow changes to trans and non-binary people's birth certificates without a judgement panel, high fees, doctors letters and evidence, the biggest change is that their dignity and rights are respected.

"Further delays are not acceptable and will have a significant and negative impact on trans and non-binary people."
www.bbc.com/news/uk-49145408

Interesting priorities

BBC
'Gender Recognition Act: LGBT political group anger at trans law 'changes'
By Ben Hunte
LGBT correspondent
7 hours ago

(extract)
LGBT groups from the UK political parties have expressed "disappointment and anger" over potential changes to laws affecting trans people.

Leaders of the groups representing lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender members directly addressed the minister for women and equalities in a letter.

They fear leaked plans show it could be harder for trans people to transition.

The government said it will publish its response to a consultation on the Gender Recognition Act in the summer.

The LGBT groups featured in the letter to Liz Truss, seen by the BBC, are from the Conservatives, Labour, Scottish National Party, Liberal Democrats, Plaid Cymru, Greens and Alliance parties.

The groups are concerned the potential plans will see the government amend laws to make it more complicated for trans people to transition and access facilities such as toilets and changing rooms." (continues)

www.bbc.com/news/uk-53101071