Newsnight Tonight - Tavistock Clinic concerns

[rogdmum]

On at 22:45

Tweet: twitter.com/bbcnewsnight/status/1273702696076410882?s=21

Says:

TONIGHT: #Newsnight has seen evidence that staff at England's only children’s NHS gender clinic say their concerns over the care provided were ‘shut down’.

Clinicians reported worries that some patients were referred onto a gender transitioning pathway too quickly.

22:45

Stonewall seem to count non binary people in that 1% too. I can't read the original study on my phone, but "gender minority group" could mean anything, and their idea of "gender reassignment process includes "thoughts or actions" - so probably includes wearing eyeliner or nail varnish

The LGBT groups featured in the letter to Liz Truss, seen by the BBC, are from the Conservatives, Labour, Scottish National Party, Liberal Democrats, Plaid Cymru, Greens and Alliance parties.

H/t Dr Lesley Semmens

Its important (though shocking) to consider these LGBT political groups' demands for children's medical interventions in the context of the very serious Safeguarding and Duty of Care failings at NHS Tavistock GIDS.

@Fieldofgreycorn you're right, there was, but I think it was more on the lack of sufficient evidence, than the alleged failings and poor practice alleged last night. I've not watched it so that could be a complete misunderstanding on my part, but if that weren't so, Newsnight wouldn't have had a story. This isn't just lack of evidence. It's even more serious than that.

They could certainly stand to do a follow up. But the Judicial Review is hopefully going to explore this carefully - because either way, someone needs to.

The fact Newsnight felt the need to state that they'd handed their evidence over to the inspectorate/regulator...! I mean, whatever someone's views on care for gender dysphoria, nobody can approve of what was discussed last night, surely?

The thing is, where's the robust peer-reviewed follow-up study on treated children, examining levels of detransition in the years ahead, and continuing mental health? If this care is experimental, and nobody really knows long term risks versus benefits, why is it not structured so they can obtain that data?

Has anyone sought robust, solid data on this? If not, why not?

@wellbehavedwomen

The thing is, where's the robust peer-reviewed follow-up study on treated children, examining levels of detransition in the years ahead, and continuing mental health? If this care is experimental, and nobody really knows long term risks versus benefits, why is it not structured so they can obtain that data?

Has anyone sought robust, solid data on this? If not, why not?

I don't think they even follow up with the kids who stop attending, do they?

risefromyourgrave that’s awful that he is getting no ongoing therapy. I hope that he does get the help he needs and everything works out for him.

Thanks for the transcript rOwantrees sometimes I can’t believe what I am hearing. The same suspects I know. Will they ever admit to the damage they have wrought? No.

newsnight have published a link to their report their facebook page and there are no comments.

does that mean everyone except mumsnetters just turned it off? Or they watched / listened and just dont care?

www.facebook.com/bbcnewsnight/posts/10157625111336200

More likely everyone saw the JKR pile-on and don’t want that raining down on them in FB.

Or they watched / listened and just dont care?

Or too afraid of the backlash? How many people are quietly horrified but not wanting to say anything accidentally "transphobic"?

@wellbehavedwomen

The thing is, where's the robust peer-reviewed follow-up study on treated children, examining levels of detransition in the years ahead, and continuing mental health? If this care is experimental, and nobody really knows long term risks versus benefits, why is it not structured so they can obtain that data?

Has anyone sought robust, solid data on this? If not, why not?

I think Polly Carmichael was questioned on this at the end of the previous Newsnight on it and just sort of chuckled at the fact they don't actively follow up on patients after they leave GIDS' care. Maitlis pressed her on it and asked "well are you going to? " and I don't think she got a proper reply. Just "oh, we don't have that data, oh well, what can you do? "

How on earth do you not even consider it when you know it's all untested?

I think Polly Carmichael was questioned on this at the end of the previous Newsnight on it and just sort of chuckled at the fact they don't actively follow up on patients after they leave GIDS' care. Maitlis pressed her on it and asked "well are you going to? " and I don't think she got a proper reply. Just "oh, we don't have that data, oh well, what can you do? "

How on earth do you not even consider it when you know it's all untested?

Its negligent & a deriliction of the Duty of Care which NHS has to patients.

I was treated with chemotherapy and will be followed up for ten years from treatment end (all being well) not just for my welfare but in order to gather evidence to inform clinical decisions in the future.

stumbledin, there are comments now on the Newsnight facebook. Not many, but nearly everyone horrified, except one poster with a female name who comments about 'far right conservatives' and 'bigots' and tells people to offer 'compassion'.

Sure enough, a scroll back through the profile pics reveals a journey from balding obvious male person to full make up and long hair and judicious photo angles...

Honestly, why do these middle aged male trans people think that using the distress of confused young people is a good look?

there are comments now on the Newsnight facebook. Not many, but nearly everyone horrified, except one poster with a female name who comments about 'far right conservatives' and 'bigots' and tells people to offer 'compassion'.

Are they describing the Newsnight journalists and the former NHS professionals who have exposed the serious Safeguarding failures at Tavistock GIDS as 'far right conservatives' and 'bigots' ?

Safeguarding is rooted in compassion and responsibility to protect those who are vulnerable. Its also a statuatory obligation.

Comment under the Newsnight Facebook:

It's nice to see human nature at its best. If the far right conservatives can't attack black people or gays and lesbians they'll go after another minority who are being marginalised, murdered and committing suicide at a fantastic rate. If your child or yourself is not affected by this awful burden, then all you can affer is your compassion. If not your a bigot and a disaster to your family and society.

It's not being well received...

It's nice to see human nature at its best. If the far right conservatives can't attack black people or gays and lesbians they'll go after another minority who are being marginalised, murdered and committing suicide at a fantastic rate. If your child or yourself is not affected by this awful burden, then all you can affer is your compassion. If not your a bigot and a disaster to your family and society.

Yes caring about what happens to vulnerable homosexual, autistic and abused children is just so typical of the far right.

It's not being well received...

There are many points there to criticise.

I've got to say I'm also surprised by the chutzpah needed to say that whenever feminists mention safeguarding and the welfare of women and children, we don't mean what we say, it's all code for our planned world domination and promotion of girls being forced to wear pink and have pretty hair, as befits our Far Right quasi-fascist ideology.

I mean, it all probably makes sense if you believe that an inner identity feeling can override material reality, but out in the real world, when we talk about the vital importance of safeguarding and checks and balances etc. it's because we mean what we say.

Thanks for follow up re Newsnight on facebook - in fact I should have remembered that they now have a tactic of leaving at least 24hrs before putting anything on facebook. I think they hope people will have forgotten.

But it is sad that after what was a factual report people still trot out its all just a right wing conspiracy. You would have thought they would say if the report is true that's really bad, but i can point you to x or y research that shows well run transition services have a positive outcome.

But they cant even manage that.

And this just makes it seem that if not all, but a vocal group within trans activism is just about silencing and erasing women.

And the BBC is too frightened to make a report about that.

Well, to reiterate, when last I looked, most comments were definitely not pro-trans-ideology. I just thought it noteworthy that the one which was came from a clearly late transitioning male trans person, trotting out propaganda by rote.

My impression from Twitter is that the usual suspects are seriously rattled by the Newsnight report. You can’t argue with a ‘large minority’ of clinicians who all observed homophobia in parents or homophobic bullying for the children.

Honestly, why do these middle aged male trans people think that using the distress of confused young people is a good look?

It's a mystery.
Some of them seem obsessed with getting as many young people as possible onto this path to hormones and surgery.

Go back a few years and even Whittle is on record telling politicians that the majority of these kids are probably grappling with sexuality.
What the hell happened?

Honestly, why do these middle aged male trans people think that using the distress of confused young people is a good look?

Confused and distressed children are acting as a human shield for middle aged men with a sexual fetish.

By making sure that these confused children are seen as the same as the middle-aged men who transition, they hope that people will be more sympathetic to these middle-aged men, because they understand how confused and unhappy the 'trans' children are, and anything negative said about the middle-aged men could be construed as also applying to 'trans' children.

It's important not to confuse this human shield strategy with genuine concern for children. If these men genuinely cared about children, they wouldn't be advocating for putting them onto an irreversible medical pathway ending with sterilisation and lack of sexual function at an age when they don't yet understand what sex is really about.

"Some of them seem obsessed with getting as many young people as possible onto this path to hormones and surgery"

That's a bit like addiction behavior, recruiting others.

That's a bit like addiction behavior, recruiting others

Child like bodies from.blockers on those at the age of consent. Do the math.