JKR rebuttals from cis women?

[Treats]

I’ve seen a few rebuttals of the JKR statement, but only from trans women or men (mostly with beards). I’m genuinely interested to learn about the ‘other side’ of the issue, but I want to hear it from people who have a female body. I want to hear from someone who’s actually menstruated why they’re comfortable with the term “people who menstruate” instead of “women”, for example.

My natural instinct is with JKR but I work with a lot of people who are horrified by what’s she’s said, and I genuinely want to question my beliefs in this area. But I don’t want a man to tell me what I should think when the question is about what makes women distinctive.

Has anyone seen anything?

Please define “Cis women” seeing as this is a category from whom you specifically seek feedback

Sorry to offend. I mean women with female bodies. I appreciate that Mumsnet don’t really use cis as a term

I've seen messages from PopFems who are very angry with Dr Jessica Taylor for standing up for JKR, and it seems to be thoroughly based in a self-abasing generosity. There have been some thoughtful comments that seem to understand the original article was trying to include female trans people and non binary females, but most women who are popfem in perspective have defaulted to arguing that Transwomen are women and should be included because sisterhood, kind etc. They don't seem to register that they are putting men at the centre of a discussion that should be about women.

BTW, 'cis' women is a term that might get you deleted round these parts, and will certainly, at the very least, put some backs up and cause a long discussion about the term. I actually think it's appropriate here because most Popfems would probably term themselves that way.

Please don't call women cis women. There's only one type of woman: adult human female.

I’m a woman, not sure what a cis woman is? I also don’t understand why I’d be called person that menstruates? I already have a name it’s woman, I don’t feel the need to change that

Should men be labelled as people who have erections? Or people who produce sperm? It’s a bit mad really.

I read the statement on her website earlier and I completely stand with what she says.

As I take it she is trying to state that trans lives and their experiences and needs are valid and important but at the same time so are biologically born women’s lives and experiences and needs. I don’t see it as transphobia at all but a protection of women’s rights and safe spaces. I am also scared of voicing these opinions to others in case I am labelled a terf.

But I cannot bear being called cis. I am not a cis anything, I do not understand why women who have always been women have to have that added, who is that for? I am a woman.

I also know I am terrible at concisely putting my point across and I’m sure someone will articulate it much better than I can.

Well not all women (as in adult human female) menstruate

Plus theres already a word for us - its women.

I am a woman not a menstruatir and not your deliberately goady title

Following with curiosity.

I saw something* that suggested I should be offended by someone saying “women menstruate” because I am a woman who doesn’t happen to menstruate. Baffled me, would never be offended by this or even have considered it.

*the open reply letter from a whole bunch of people I think

I am a ‘woman with a female body’ aka a woman. I stand with JKR.

Calling us cis-women makes us a subset of women, so that trans women (90% of whom have had no surgery and have functioning penis and testes) can have ownership of the word ‘woman’. Fuck that shit.

Lots of women I know in real life (but am not extremely close with) have posted on facebook in horror about JKR and her gender critical views. I haven't seen any commentary on which specific aspects of her argument that they disagree with, just general outrage and posting of videos such as this, which does make a few interesting points but doesn't seem to address some of the main issues with a changing definition of sex (in my opinion):

I'm curious about their staunchly held views and would love to understand which bits of JKR's essay they feel are abhorrent... but don't want to open that can of worms, certainly not on a FB post, so I will watch quietly from the sidelines!

If I can stick up for the OP here - she's asking if there have been any responses from women who would describe themselves as cis, talking about what JKR is supposed to have said/done wrong.

I haven't seen a rebuttal of JKR by a woman about the menstruation question, just a few articles by self described 'cis women' insisting that TWAW and missing the point.

Yes, cis is an insulting, ridiculous term, but it is indeed how any prospective author of such an article would term themselves.

I've seen a bit of backlash on my personal facebook, but then I'm Scottish and run with a very pro-Indy crowd - most of them still hate her for coming out for the union in 2014. They aren't really listening and are very hooked into the SNP agenda that GRA reform is the right, fair and progressive thing to do. It's interesting the bits of her blog that are being cherry picked for sharing.

I’ve seen plenty of women who are not trans being outraged by JKR. In full trans-ally mode.

And most of them seem to be wilfully misinterpreting what she’s said about menstruating, mostly along the lines of “I don’t have periods, am I a man then?” which is not what she said at all 🙄

I am a woman, not a cis woman. Please don’t use that term, it’s offensive.

Cis my arse

Most of the stuff I have seen has been from men. Or transwomen. No transmen (but then, it's never about transmen).

From biological women who disagree with JKR, its very basic. 'Trans women are women'. 'Be kind'. Or because they know 'Mary who is lovely'.

I think people see it as an open acceptance, without appreciating the implications.

from women whowoulddescribe themselves as cis,

I describe myself as a woman. I reject the imposed description of cis which links female biology to a feeling of being 'female' that I do not identify with.

I do not express my femininity by wearing my hair long, by wearing makeup, dresses, or high heels.

My femininity is evident through my biological features, my muscle ratios, my heart and lung capacity.

Cis is supposed to mean that my body matches my inherent felt gender but as I reject gender stereotypes and do not have an inherent felt gender, I am not cis.

I'm a woman. Not cis. Not a 'menstruator'
A woman.

Fucksake, are people deliberately misreading me, or is it a heat of the moment thing?

I know 'cis' is fucking awful sexist bullshit. But there are deeply woke, compliant women who will use the term of themselves, and they are the women who would be writing any rebuttal of JKR that the OP is asking about the existence of.

Op ask yourself why they are horrified. Why is the fact that only women menstruate so terrible, so awful that people throw a collective temper tantrum.

Then ask why is it okay for them to dehumanise women as menstruators, cervix havers, uterus people but it's perfectly fine to call men well...men. Note that men are not called ejaculators, sperm havers, prostrate owners they are called men. Now what should be good for the goose should be good for the gander, shouldn't it? But it's not. There is an imbalance there.

Only women are being dehumanised, only women are being told we can not talk about things that relate to our experiences of being female.

Woman is not a feeling. It's not a costume. These people who scream at women for not not being kind and inclusive are rather happy to exclude women from womanhood. Yes and Cis is a way of doing that it makes us a subset of our own sex. That's why many of us find it insulting and offensive. The whole thing is hypocritical.

I think it's great that you are asking questions. Knowledge is power.

One last thing. Are they really that horrified? Or are the deflecting from what they know deep down is true. No one wants to be the subject of the bullying mob that currently dominates this debate.

I’ve not seen any arguments against jkr put forward by women, only the circular TWAW/you’ve taken away my childhood memories/Be Kind statements.

This makes me think they’ve done what I originally did and have taken it at face value, and it’s simply a question of kindness and protecting a minority.

I am a WOMAN. What on Earth gives you the right to label me?

@BaronessFloralBunting

Fucksake, are people deliberately misreading me, or is it a heat of the moment thing?

I know 'cis' is fucking awful sexist bullshit. But there are deeply woke, compliant women who will use the term of themselves, and they are the women who would be writing any rebuttal of JKR that the OP is asking about the existence of.

I was referring to the goady fuckery in the thread title.