Emma Watson no longer believes in women

[JGACC]

Emma Watson has now tweeted in support of trans activists. I can't believe it.

I don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you saying because he's manly looking he wouldn't, as a transgender person, be at risk of being subject to trans phobic abuse?
The mere fact that you’re calling him a he show that you know TW are not women.
Why are you so desperate to deny what your own eyes are telling you?
I genuinely want to know because honestly it’s just baffling

Part of me right now thinks though that because women outnumber transwomen so much, aren't we punching down a bit by being so exclusive?

Do we? The Stonewall definition of trans is so broad that it would be hard to imagine anyone who wouldn't fit their criteria for being trans.

What has Emma Watson said about the abuse that was directed at JK Rowling?

Don't want to be one of those on here who says "do your own dirty work, you can find it for yourself!"
Gonna though.
Was about to answer you with benefit of doubt but saw your name and you're not new to these discussions.
It's the shit that's usually flung at me for just asking a question.

@AngeloMysterioso

I’m sorely tempted to start a petition to have Emma Watson removed from her post as a UN Women’s Ambassador.

Or maybe they should rename it UN Menstruators Ambassador.

The name she chose for the campaign centered men. Watson donates to Mermaids. That isn't ignorance. That's misogyny.

The constant barrage of bollocking over single sex spaces is really bizarre when I have said multiple times and since my first post that I already agree with that

Is it bizarre?
Would you prefer to being told to kill your self, or die in a fire, or be raped, or suck a ladydick?
Because that’s the insults they’ll give you when you say to them they’re not welcome in women’s prisons/change rooms/refuges.
You think you’re being kind, that there’s a middle ground.
But there isn’t.
They’ll accept nothing but total capitulation.

@CloudyVanilla

Sorry that is a cross post from quite a few posts back now.

I also agree that it's a shame so much good will has been lost. That was the point really.

I feel bad for JKR, but hasn't she dig a bit of a hole for herself, not with her very eloquent statement, but for past tweets which give a bit of a different context to her views?

Part of me right now thinks though that because women outnumber transwomen so much, aren't we punching down a bit by being so exclusive? But maybe it's like a pp said in that it's actually the proponents of trans women sometimes who are the ones shutting down all hope of reconciliation.

I have to say I didn't agree with DR's very matter of fact trans women are women. Can't trans women be proud trans women? Maybe most of them are? And a loud and vocal minority are causing all this bad blood?

Anyway good night and thanks for the many interesting conversations 🧚🏼‍♀️🌸🌻🌹

Re your comment about punching down. It doesn't really matter how many men identify as women when you use class based analysis to look at it.

Transwomen are of the male political class, the class who have oppressed women as a class for a millennia. Whilst women have made progress this axis of power hasn't changed and it continues to be unchanged despite some men identify as something other than men.

Until the axis flips to a 180 and we become a matriarchal society then women as a class will never be punching down on men as a class (including those who identify as other).

I've attached pictures that make it clear how women lose out when this ideology is adopted wholesale and codified into law.

You know what would have been really brave for these good young allies trans people to do? To state, simply: “JKR is entitled to her own opinion. I don’t Happen to agree with her on this issue. But I think the abuse she is getting for her views is utterly unacceptable.”

@LangClegTheBeardedVulture TAKE.A.BOW beautifully put!

The so called 'woke generation' have a huge huge problem accepting that people have different opinions to them. My siblings fall into this category and often smirk and snigger and make reference to the fact that us 'karens' need educating. Why can't we all get to a point where these issues don't become a free for all slanging match on social media? People are saying some absolutely disgusting things about JKR simply because they disagree with her, it's not necessary

I think EWs tweet is the worst of the lot. Terse, cold and dismissive. Nasty piece of work.

I think EWs tweet is the worst of the lot
Which one? - Her latest one is the only one I can see you would be referring toand deserve to live their lives without being constantly questioned or told they aren't who they say they are"
"Trans people are who they say they are

Because that’s the insults they’ll give
"They?"
See, I can't get on board with this.
Anyone saying anything like that is absolutely disgusting, but they're not one big blob.
One knob says something, "they're all out to erase women or this is what they';re saying about you?"

Write you don’t agree with single sex spaces on Twitter and see what happens.
See if you can get on board with that:

‘They’ means more then one. Not every single one/
It’s tedious dealing with this wide eyed innocence all the time.

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

I think EWs tweet is the worst of the lot Which one? - Her latest one is the only one I can see you would be referring toand deserve to live their lives without being constantly questioned or told they aren't who they say they are" "Trans people are who they say they are

I find that demand for obedience to be antithetical to Feminism and general human decency framed as a call to basic human decency which makes it deeply offensive manipulative and dishonest.

What has Emma Watson said about the abuse that was directed at JK Rowling?

The same thing Daniel Radcliffe, Evanna Lynch and Eddie Redmayne said. Less than fuck all.

@CloudyVanilla

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I agree with the single sex space issue. I my original point on the thread was simply that I was sad it caused such vitriol between feminists and trans women, as both groups are subject to male violence and it's sad for me that anyone would feel so hated on when there is already a context of subjugation and violence - and that is relevant again for both groups.

My point was never ever that women should be subject to sharing same sex spaces with male bodied people as a solution to this conflict of interests. Quite the opposite. I was just commenting that it's a hard issue to get over because I read JKRs statement and I completely agree with her, and then I hear the statements from DR and EW and completely agree with them too!

Both groups are subject to male violence - yes. But as a group, trans women blame 'cis women', 'TERFs', 'cis scum', etc for this violence, and/or centre the 'literal violence' committed by aforementioned 'cis women' et al typing things like 'only women menstruate' or even referencing female biology over the actual violence committed by men.

Seeing this doesn't mean that feminists don't support trans rights - it means that we've noticed that the activism, particularly in recent years, is deeply misogynistic.

This is compounded by those advocating for trans rights pretending that this kind of misogyny and abuse doesn't ever happen, as opposed to claiming infiltration by creepy MRAs etc - or else arguing that it's somehow acceptable to frequently tell women to 'suck my dick, 'choke on my lady dick', etc. if their opinions don't agree 100% with current trans ideology. Mentioning female biology is hate speech, so 'punch a TERF' is appropriate.

It's really worth looking into the history of all this - I forget which thread here it's mentioned in, but a pretty recent one where the 'unspoken acceptance'/goodwill/unofficial-law thing was at play between natal women and trans women (in an era when 'trans' meant 'transsexual'). The 'conflict of interests' side of this is new - the right of trans individuals to define 'woman' is a very recent development.

I totally get wanting to be kind & nice & fair - for me, distinguishing between trans activists/activism & trans people has been useful in this regard, if that's helpful. x

I find that demand for obedience

Who's demanding obedience whatever that is- we're all entitled to our own view.

but for past tweets which give a bit of a different context to her views?

Like this?

“I respect every trans person’s right to live any way that feels authentic and comfortable to them. I’d march with you if you were discriminated against on the basis of being trans.”

Or like this:

“The idea that women like me, who’ve been empathetic to trans people for decades, feeling kinship because they’re vulnerable in the same way as women - ie, to male violence - ‘hate’ trans people because they think sex is real and has lived consequences - is a nonsense.”

Are they the different contexts you mean?

Who's demanding obedience whatever that is- we're all entitled to our own view.

Entitled to - Boyle that’s an interesting choice of words.

What does ‘entitled to our own view’ mean?

Because people have been ‘cancelled’ left and right for their views.
If you mean you can say what you want without being arrested, well, not so much.
Being thrown into a cell, or having a police officer visit your place of employment doesn’t scream entitlement does it?

If ‘entitled to’ means you’ll be ‘cancelled’ but you can still technically say it if you want to, it’s not really an entitlement is it.

we're all entitled to our own view.

So if trans people are who they say they are, what other things apart from sex is it fine to claim, or are women the only group who can't use language to fight their oppression?

CloudyVanilla

It seems to me that although you agree we need single sex spaces, you also say you are detecting a less than enthusiastic attitude towards trans people in general?

Perhaps this will give you some context.

First of all, this is not about individuals. You cannot base laws, cultural protocols, statistics and legislative processes on individual people.

Secondly, the women here aren't strangers to transgenderism. Many have trans children, trans parents and trans husbands. And we also have trans people posting.

So the subject has, necessarily, been analysed to death.

Transgender ideology relies on sexism. Which is one of the problems. So it will always be criticised on that basis. Particularly by feminists.

Furthermore, there is a distinct difference between what people would call transsexuals and transwomen. Transsexuals are mostly gay males who struggle with the masculinity society expects from them.

The new influx of transwomen would appear to be those who are autogynephiles, which is a fetish where the person is aroused at the thought of themselves as a woman. Stonewall absolutely include them under the term transgender.

This obviously gets criticised a lot, because validating the person is being an unwitting participant in their fetish.

This cohort remain attracted to women, and 90% keep their genitalia.

As far as I know, there haven't been any studies to determine numbers, but the aggression is coming from this second cohort. And they appear to be the majority. They are the ones demanding access to everything to do with women, as it is validating.

Women who object are routinely threatened, doxed, have had every single meeting they've arranged targeted. The House of Commons claimed they'd never heard anything like it when a meeting scheduled to be held there was targeted. Millwall football club pulled out as a venue, despite their slogan being everybody hates us and we don't care. Credible bomb threats were investigated by police in Hastings. A 60 year woman was hit by a transactivist who has been subsequently convicted of battery.

You've seen the threats directed at J. K. Rowling. This doesn't stop.

People have been arrested for stating facts and even for 'thinking the wrong things'.

If you know some decent transwomen, who you suspect are same-sex attracted, then no doubt they are what we would call transsexuals. Just wanting to get on with it under the radar. Unfortunately they have now been subsumed. Something which many of them predicted would happen, as stonewall widened the umbrella of what it meant to be trans.

Transgender is not just one thing.

So yes, single sex spaces must be preserved, because every predator in the country, whether trans or not, has now seen the loophole. Men commit 98% of all sex crimes. A pattern of behaviour which does not change however you identify.

Boyle?

This is exactly what I thought. How can she go from an ambassador for women, to ignoring the concerns of women?

Career. Career. Career.

Boyle?

I can understand why your struggling with the nuances of this discussion if you’re this confounded by an autocorrect.

Nothing to add regarding the rest then?
Interesting.

@CloudyVanilla that is an absolutely spot on post.

Both groups need protection and support.

What kind of example do we set our kids when we can't have a nuanced debate, can't discuss or negotiate our differences, share our valid concerns, and reach understanding and relationship?

It's a shame that (some) people care so much what celebrities think about Big Issues. Actors, musicians, and athletes in particular aren't any more intelligent or better informed than anyone else. What makes their opinions worth any more than a person chosen at random?

I wish fewer would look to entertainers for guidance in serious matters. They simply don't deserve the megaphone they're given, on the whole.

Emma Watson was already "cancelled" last week, at least in the US, for (allegedly) attempting to cash in on BLM without actually supporting black people.

Now she's apparently trying to cash in on trans people while (perhaps accidentally) virtue signalling* about "transwomen" when the immediate issue is the lack of support for transmen. Who still lack support, including hers.

Nicola Sturgeon, who was appointed as the inaugural #HeForShe Global Advocate by UN Women (the same campaign that Emma Watson represented/represents) is also getting stick this week because her government has just passed apparently misogynistic AND transphobic legislation that attempts to enshrine in law the principle that Transwomen Are Women, but Transmen Are Not Men.

As Borat would say about this timeline: "It's nice."

*I normally hate the term "virtue signalling", as it's traditionally used to complain that someone has spoken up about an issue that needs speaking up about, and to assume/pretend that the speaker is not (also) doing work around that issue even if there's ample evidence that they ARE. Unfortunately, Emma and Dan are bringing that term into good repute: they really are "virtue signalling" about an issue (issues, in Emma's case) that they know (and apparently care) little about and in fact undermine with their "real life" speech and actions.