Emma Watson no longer believes in women

[JGACC]

Emma Watson has now tweeted in support of trans activists. I can't believe it.

I would wonder why you would go out of your way to be so bothered about denying people a courtesy that makes them feel more comfortable.

It is a courtesy to be polite to an individual. However, using the word 'menstruator' rather than 'woman', when you are talking about an issue that affects women's rights regardless of whether they are currently menstruating is censorship of thought.

Does it if the author also refers to women and girls? If they just said menstruators I'd totally agree.

Menstruators is such a gross word I don't want to type it anymore.

you just cant decide for every single person that no other meaning is attached to the word.

Actually I think I very much can object when people insist that stereotypical concepts of behaviour and address must be attached to a word that applies to me.

I think for me the issue is you can't say on one hand "no one can tell someone else how to define their gender" and on the other hand, whispered under their breath, "except if that person is a natal woman"
Because that's the issue. Natal women are happy with their own definition of their gender and sex. That gender and sex defines us together, not singularly, as natal women, and confers upon us specific struggles that no one else experiences. Trans women grew up with male privilege whether they like to believe it or not. And it's just as wrong to take those away as it is to tell anyone else what gender they are.

behaviour and dress, not behaviour and address...

Sorry my last sentence should have come after "Natal women are happy with their own definition of gender and sex."
And "their" should be "our". SMH I'm typing too fast.

I lost faith in Emma Watson years ago. That said, I still have sympathy for her.

I remember how she was treated growing up - how utterly vile men were as they leered at a thirteen year old and counted down to the day she would officially pass the threshold of legal fuckability. I'm sure this informed her decision to become a UN Ambassador for Women later on, and I do believe her attempts to create a more feminist world were genuine.

I squirmed at that interview with Paris Lees, narcissist extraordinare, as what was supposed to be a piece about Emma's reflections on her life, as Emma turned thirty, became instead an instance of grooming in action, as Emma was subtly steered into making Paris the focus of conversation, and then not-so-subtly made to parrot Paris's views.

I'm disappointed in Emma, and won't be supporting any of her future projects. But I still hope she wakes up one day.

I agreed with both JKR and the people supporting trans women

Unfortunately, the people "supporting trans women" would tell you these were mutually exclusive positions to hold. If you agree with JKR you are a terf.

Everyone arguing here started out at the 'just be kind' stage you are in. the 'well I have some concerns but I'm sure we can find a reasonable compromise' stage.

The people currently "supporting trans women" on social media are not interested in reasonable compromise. And anything else but complete capitulation and validation of all identities as the true reality, and recognition of sex as an outdated, unscientific and imperialist way of thinking is not enough. Anything less than that and you need to choke on a lady cock or die in a grease fire.

I'm tired of having to underline, every time I talk about women's rights, that I also support trans rights. But for the umpteenth time, trans people should not be subject to discrimination in housing or employment, should be safe from violence and free to express themselves however they wish.

Those rights already exist and I am glad of it. My focus, however, is women and girls, and the trans movement makes many demands and entrenches many ideas which actively harm and undermine women and girl's place in our culture, and I will always have to object to that. I'm not someone who went looking for this. But when trans rights campaigners are demanding I choose to put women second, I will not do it. I'm as sad as anyone that so much goodwill has been lost.

from every study I can find, the majority of trans women are attracted to men

Going back a bit in the thread, @CloudyVanilla, but I feel I should point out to you that you seem to have been misled about this particular point.

The vast majority of men who transition late in life are heterosexual, and they have often been married to women and fathered children. Some people who fit in this category are Caitlyn Jenner, Jane Fae, Kellie Maloney, Debbie Hayton. Many heterosexual men transition due to autogynephilia, which is a paraphilia in which they are attracted to themselves as women, so they try to become the woman who is the object of their desire. Debbie Hayton has recently written about this as the reason for his transition (he doesn't object to male pronouns, because he knows he's not a woman).

I would wonder why you would go out of your way to be so bothered about denying people a courtesy that makes them feel more comfortable.

Because it impacts women in a negative way. There are girls in Connecticut who have lost their ranking in athletics because 2 boys identified as girls and ran in the female races. This matters in high school athletics because college places and scholarships depend on it. This is all over the US. Unfortunately then only people caring about it are the evangelical right so women are kind of screwed - certainly those girls in Connecticut were left without any support from decent normal people at all. Does that sound familiar to anyone who has studied women's history???

To the girl who should have taken first place and now hasn't - is that a "courtesy" she should give someone to make them more comfortable? is that the role of women?

If the "anyone who says they are a woman is a woman" shit hadn't happened, women would have continued being just fine with transwomen - welcoming etc. That isn't what is happening here.

Of course you can but it doesn't mean other people won't attach connotations to the word woman and might object to being called one is what I mean. If they felt as such. I'm not saying I agree with TWAW, although i feel mean saying that. I'm saying you can't tell someone who is bothered by being called a woman that they must suck it up and accept it because it's a fact. The same way I wouldn't insist a man identifies as such because factually they are one. I support their right to identify as not a man - apparently everyone here also supports that because they support trans women. I don't know though.

I didn't say I had the answers I just feel sad that people on both sides are being hurt by this high profile fall out on Twitter. I wish it was acceptable to just have individual spaces or a third space too. I'm worried about the large organisations like mermaids too I don't understand how they are so successful. I guess a lot of politicians are like me and want there to not be the glaringly obvious conflict that there is regarding womens spaces. It's a shame it so often is falling in favour of those organisations though as if threats to women doesn't exist. I know there are trans people who are on womens side and who don't feel this is necessary at all.

@blubellsarebells How fucking dare all these snotty kids that jk made turn on her like this.
How bloody dare they

urm JK didn't cast them. In fact she often said she wouldn't have cast Watson as Hermione.

Just because they acted out her vision doesn't mean they have to agree with her opinions

Supporting TW doesn't mean agreeing with them about everything. I support women and I'm damned sure I don't agree with everything every woman thinks.

She's thick as fucking mince.

That would be the Emma Watson who was at Brown University and Oxford and secured a degree?

Really, slinging this sort of silly accusation against someone because you don't agree with their views doesn't enhance your argument.

There are girls in Connecticut who have lost their ranking in athletics because 2 boys identified as girls and ran in the female races.

If, as we are told, everyone accepts that sex exists, its very hard to understand how this case has got so far.

That would be the Emma Watson who was at Brown University and Oxford and secured a degree?

Exactly, that's the kind of thing that pisses me off - anyone who doesn't agree with you is automatically stupid.

Lots of thick people manage to get degrees, but that’s beside the point really.

She is certainly extremely dense when it comes to feminism. You can’t protect women and girls without knowing what a female human is.

Sorry that is a cross post from quite a few posts back now.

I also agree that it's a shame so much good will has been lost. That was the point really.

I feel bad for JKR, but hasn't she dig a bit of a hole for herself, not with her very eloquent statement, but for past tweets which give a bit of a different context to her views?

Part of me right now thinks though that because women outnumber transwomen so much, aren't we punching down a bit by being so exclusive? But maybe it's like a pp said in that it's actually the proponents of trans women sometimes who are the ones shutting down all hope of reconciliation.

I have to say I didn't agree with DR's very matter of fact trans women are women. Can't trans women be proud trans women? Maybe most of them are? And a loud and vocal minority are causing all this bad blood?

Anyway good night and thanks for the many interesting conversations 🧚🏼‍♀️🌸🌻🌹

What has Emma Watson said about the abuse that was directed at JK Rowling?

I firmly believe in single sex spaces.

I also have a bit of a tin hat theory... who stands to gain the most from self ID becoming a thing and the removal of women’s safe spaces? Predatory men.

Who really really dislikes the feminist movement and the reaction they’ve been gaining? Predatory men.

Who are trans people most at risk from? Predatory men.

Who stands to gain from feminists and trans people being pitted against each other? Predatory men.

Where have predatory men been proven to dwell time and time again? In positions of power.

It’s my feeling that men in power are behind the push for self ID, because they want in where they aren’t allowed. Divide and conquer has long been the tactic for sinister government and I believe there’s probably some of that going on.

The enemy isn’t trans people, the enemy is predatory men. I don’t want to share my safe space with a penis because my experience, and the statistics, tells me it is predatory.

I’m so angry that two marginalised groups are fighting each other when it’s men. It’s men, it’s men, it’s men that have driven us to this. Women can’t live their lives without fear, people can’t identify as how they want to without fear, because, since the dawn of time, men take and rape and beat and revel in their own power.

There should be three spaces, but it shouldn’t have to be because women and trans people need SAFE spaces, it should be because science dictates there are physical differences. These physical differences (sex) are there for those that want to compete etc within those confines and the third space should be there for those that are happy being defined by identify, not science.

other people won't attach connotations to the word woman and might object to being called one is what I mean... I'm saying you can't tell someone who is bothered by being called a woman that they must suck it up and accept it because it's a fact

The thing is - words do have meanings. That's what a dictionary is - a book filled with words and their definitions. And we use those words to convey ideas. And that works because we all understand exactly what those words mean. It is the very underpinning of communication. Without communication there is no functioning human society.

The attempt to twist and obfuscate language, to pretend that words don't have definite meanings, that their meaning can be subjective is one of the most pernicious and insidious parts of the trans ideology. It is Orwellian.

I'm not saying I agree with TWAW, although i feel mean saying that.

If you are being made to feel mean because you state material reality then it is time to start asking some fucking big questions. Because you have had a number done on you.

want there to not be the glaringly obvious conflict that there is regarding womens spaces.

The conflict only exists because of the pushing of the TRAs. Too many people try to frame this so called debate as it being two sides as bad as each other. It's not - it;s one side desperately clinging to the protections they have already been granted and the other side trying to remove those protections. The reason this conflict continues is because politicians and businesses are too spineless to tell the TRAs 'no'.

If they just did that - they could fund and build third spaces and it would all go away.

I’m sorely tempted to start a petition to have Emma Watson removed from her post as a UN Women’s Ambassador.

Or maybe they should rename it UN Menstruators Ambassador.

@merrymouse

There are girls in Connecticut who have lost their ranking in athletics because 2 boys identified as girls and ran in the female races.

If, as we are told, everyone accepts that sex exists, its very hard to understand how this case has got so far.

Well, who is really surprised that the TRA response to Rowling's laser focus on the reality of sex, after they have spent years obfuscating or denying it, is to lie through their teeth that no one has ever denied the reality of sex?

She's very naive and earnest.