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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK new post on her reasons for writing about gender

868 replies

BlackKite · 10/06/2020 17:13

www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

Enjoy

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Needmoresleep · 12/06/2020 10:39

Fanta, exactly. And others argued that since they were medical students, alcohol soaked Christmas celebrations were part of their cultural traditions. I think the solution was “pre’s” and “after’s”.

Ditto the day they had on ‘transgender medicine’. A whole afternoon with a brave and stunning trans women telling them how brave and stunning they were. The medical students were genuinely interested in the medicine stuff: hormones, surgery etc, things they might see as GPS or hospital doctors. Unfortunately the brave and stunning person had decided not to have any medical intervention, so discussion was limited to the dangers of changing your medical records. (Students thought it was crazy and were confused as to why someone would reduce their chances of survival after, say, an RTA.) I wondered how much it cost the University and how many similar gigs there are out there. Apparently the speaker was very arrogant, so perhaps the learning, intended or not, was to recognise power structures and keep individual thoughts to yourself.

Hence how important JKRs statement is.

Prinstress · 12/06/2020 11:28

I’m currently in a therapy program for Personality disorder and PTSD treatment, which I suffer from due to male violence and sexual abuse I have experienced throughout my life.

The place I go to for treatment also houses a gender dysphoria clinic. My diagnosis is a mental illness. There’s is not.

We have a shared waiting room where I quite often have to sit in close proximity to middle aged Trans Women who dress and act like a pornified caricature of women.
I find this highly distressing and it has on one occasion triggered a panic attack, which resulted in me having to leave and not attend my therapy.

When I voiced my concern and confusion to my (lovely) therapist a year ago, I felt completely invalidated by her response. She could not explain why I suffer from something defined as a mental illness, but they do not, or why it is appropriate for traumatised women to have to share a space with people who are clearly (to me) AGP.

I had an online session with her this week where I was in floods of tears over the JK essay and subsequent backlash. I explained how I feel women are being retraumatised by this constant need to validate Trans Women while invalidating female trauma victims and reprogramming us to be able to handle the world. I think she’s finally starting to see where i’m coming from, she said she was going to read Jo’s essay and do some more research online.

I tried to speak to my best friend about how distressing I find it and the battles I’ve had about going to therapy, and feeling “eyed up” by these Trans Women, how the way they dress and present makes me feel uncomfortable and like I’m forced to take part in their fetish by being in the same room.

Her response was “yeah I would feel uncomfortable too, but maybe these men just don’t know how to dress”

I’m completely devastated, I know she loves drag race and drag queens so not overly surprised but as someone who has also suffered sexual assault and male violence I am so disappointed she thinks that women’s rights and needs should come second to making sure trans people don’t feel uncomfortable.

Feel really alone right now.

WeetabixBananaHipsterFFS · 12/06/2020 11:28

Alcohol free vegetarian! Is there anywhere they could actually go in that case?

I’m sceptical this is genuinely ethically driven, seems more like identity assertion for the sake of it.

Maybe just don’t all hang out together, ever?

Very progressive.

CaraDune · 12/06/2020 11:30

Ditto the day they had on ‘transgender medicine’. A whole afternoon with a brave and stunning trans women telling them how brave and stunning they were. The medical students were genuinely interested in the medicine stuff: hormones, surgery etc, things they might see as GPS or hospital doctors. Unfortunately the brave and stunning person had decided not to have any medical intervention, so discussion was limited to the dangers of changing your medical records. (Students thought it was crazy and were confused as to why someone would reduce their chances of survival after, say, an RTA.) I wondered how much it cost the University and how many similar gigs there are out there. Apparently the speaker was very arrogant, so perhaps the learning, intended or not, was to recognise power structures and keep individual thoughts to yourself.

I am now imagining this scene as written in a Tom Sharpe novel...

Where is the rolling on the floor crying with laughter emoji, MNHQ?

CaraDune · 12/06/2020 11:32

Flowers @Prinstress

That is awful. I'd say "find a new therapist", but I know that finding even one therapist is a bloody struggle.

Prinstress · 12/06/2020 11:37

Thanks @CaraDune

This is the only treatment option available to me on the NHS and it is working, the improvement in myself despite these challenges is astounding!

I’m not going to give that up, but I do feel like I need to present my concerns to the trust in writing. I know I won’t be the only person attending who feels that way, and I’m feeling strong enough now to stand up for myself.

I matter.

NeurotrashWarrior · 12/06/2020 11:41

Thanks prin Sad

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 12/06/2020 11:51

Prinstress I’m so sorry Flowers

On JK’s far reaching sunlight - my DH (long time GC but doesn’t broadcast it) tells me his gaming group have been messaging about JK (all men 30s-40s all parents, all brought up working class, 4 have lots of professional contact with teen children) - they all get it.

Needmoresleep · 12/06/2020 11:57

Maybe just don’t all hang out together, ever? Very progressive.

Most young people believe in being nice, and in being inclusive. They have had a lifetime of PHSE education. Excluding any group within the cohort would be seen as unacceptable, both by that group and by the others. Which leads to a sense of constantly treading on eggshells. Concepts of triggering, identity and more are all live and kicking on University campuses. JKR saying things as she sees them, and not as she "should" be saying them, is very important.

I think it is all the more important to young women as they seem to bear the brunt of the "be nice" directives.

That said, I am old enough to also suspect identity assertion. But recognise that on some campuses and in some professions (acting - eh Emma and Daniel?) you ignore the zeitgeist at your peril.

WeetabixBananaHipsterFFS · 12/06/2020 12:21

Back in the ‘90s, the veggies (inc me) would’ve picked non-meat food from wherever, the Muslims (inc my friend) wouldn’t have ordered booze from wherever. My not-terribly-observant Jewish friend would eat veggie food out to avoid non-kosher meat (yes, I know, non-kosher kitchen!).

This rub-along compromising fails miserably when identity assertion and purity are the priority.

People are free to choose what matters most to them, of course.

RatinaMaze · 12/06/2020 13:18

I've noticed an interesting change in rhetoric this morning. Many of those who had previously screamed for the burning at the stake of JKR are now saying that they still disagree with her viewpoints but are defending her as a victim of domestic violence and sexual assault, acknowledging her trauma and her history.

I'm guessing this means that they have actually read her essay now whereas previously they were taking the decision not to acknowledge or engage with what she wrote. It has shone a light on the way that women are dismissed when we try to share our experiences.

More so, a light is being shone on violence against women which can surely only serve to open up the discussion about sex segregated safe spaces, why the exist and why we fought long and hard for these.

RatinaMaze · 12/06/2020 13:20

I'm also wondering about the older female members of the HP cast (or, for that matter, male). We've obviously read the woke statements from Radcliffe, Watson etc but does anyone know what Julie Walters thinks?

DickKerrLadies · 12/06/2020 13:40

Where is the rolling on the floor crying with laughter emoji, MNHQ?

I've thought about asking for this before, but I feel I would need to use it far too much.

Prinstress · 12/06/2020 13:44

Another author I love and admire, Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie.

www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/clip/2237b1ff-f932-4893-9827-5917b636e96c

ChattyLion · 12/06/2020 13:54

Prinstress Adichie is also brave and awesome standing up for women, thanks for the clip.
So sorry you have had to deal with that at your therapy, of all places. Awful. Flowers

WeetabixBananaHipsterFFS · 12/06/2020 13:54

I'm guessing this means that they have actually read her essay now whereas previously they were taking the decision not to acknowledge or engage with what she wrote.

I think it’s that some people have painted themselves into a woke corner. They know what they ought to say, despite it being glaringly inconsistent with everything else that comes out of their mouths.

emilybrontescorsett · 12/06/2020 13:59

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Lamahaha · 12/06/2020 14:40

A bit of a classic was whether they should go to a vegetarian or a halal restaurant for their Christmas dinner. Muslims said they would feel excluded from somewhere that served alcohol, vegetarians asked why they could not have similar concerns about somewhere that served meat.

This is the kind of thing that gives vegetarians a bad name. I've been vegetarian since 1971 and I've always gone out to eat with meat eaters; my husband ate meat and I would actually go to the butcher, buy a steak or whatever, and cook it for him. And then people complain because they are mocked because they are vegetarians.

Iggi999 · 12/06/2020 14:44

Lamahaha that makes no sense. I'm glad you're happy to shop for meat but many vegetarians wouldn't be, doesn't mean they deserve mocking! I would not expect work meals to be in veggie restaurants though but it would be nice if the Xmas meal out "veggie" menu didn't include a fish starter and a pasta dish covered in Parmesan Hmm

RatinaMaze · 12/06/2020 14:45

I'm one of those women who can't speak up publicly. I have too much to lose in my career and the likely impact on my family. I have one person in my family/social circle who is the wokest of the woke and I regret the fact that I don't have the backbone to provide a counter-point to her numerous social media posts, but the recriminations would be too much.

Anyway, this is all a preamble to some amazing news! One of my friends posted JKR's essay on fb earlier in the week. I was - and am - delighted by the fact that she has more courage than I do to nail her courage to the mast. Even better though, only one person has liked the post, and not just liked but commented with very clear thoughts in support of JKR and against self-id. That one person is one of my employees - the woman who posted the article is a mutual friend of both of us. I can't really formally acknowledge my employee's viewpoint but I'd love her to know that I agree and support her.

If you are here and recognise the scenario above, give yourself a big fat, feminist hug and know that you are not alone.

Iggi999 · 12/06/2020 14:48

[quote Prinstress]Another author I love and admire, Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie.

www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/clip/2237b1ff-f932-4893-9827-5917b636e96c[/quote]
Everyone in that clip quotes with an Shock and a Angry is simply speaking sense, it's so hard to see how it is misinterpreted?

DeRigueurMortis · 12/06/2020 14:59

Robert Webb has commented on Twitter.

twitter.com/arobertwebb/status/1271363908834648064?s=21

JK new post on her reasons for writing about gender
BatShite · 12/06/2020 15:06

It said she writes under another name, which is the name of the man who created gay conversion therapy, apparently under this name she also wrote a series of books in which the transwoman was the villain. Put together it does make me feel uncomfortable.

Ys, I am sure that the years of standing up for minorities and such..was all an act and she definitely picked that name as she agrees with conversion therapy and not for any other reason, including the long one she gave at the time Hmm

beargrass · 12/06/2020 15:07

@Prinstress Thanks

Oxyiz · 12/06/2020 15:42

Ah Robert. Please don't cave again. Please.