Just when you think you couldn’t love JK Rowling more...

[Deltoids1]

She posts this.

chocolate50
Can you explain then?

Why should gender(subjective) be prioritised over sex (objective, measurable) in public affairs?
Obviously, we will all 'be kind' in our interactions with others.
But policy makers have to consider everyones rights. So why gender, why now, why not sex?

I think the women on the feminist board at mumsnet know exactly what we are talking about. Do hang around, another abusive arsehole calling us cunts will be along in a mo'.

No room for an alternative opinion or different view.

Why do many people make this mistake nowadays? Just because everyone is entitled to have an opinion, does not mean that every opinion carries the same weight and is equally deserving of attention.

If I have the opinion that the Earth is 4000 years old I am entitled to think that. What I should not do is argue with scientists who have clear physical evidence and expect my opinion to sway them or matter.

If you are of the opinion that a human being can change sex, or that we have male/female ‘souls’ drifting into random wrong bodies and making us like the wrong colours and clothes for our gentials then, well, you do you.

What you shouldn’t be doing is shrieking that those who can understand reality and demonstrable facts aren’t listening to your ‘opinion’ enough.

What would you be saying if your child said to you that they aren't happy with their gender & had gone to the GP or had an assessment & this had medically backed up that they should be assigned to a different gender?

As an informed parent, I would be contacting my GP to wonder what on earth they had told my child, because I know that there is no medical assessment to assign somebody to a different gender, and certainly not one that can be given by a GP. It is possible for a specialist to give somebody a diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

However, you should also know that some trans people consider it transphobic to medicalise the concept of gender identity or to claim that all trans people suffer from gender dysphoria.

Get educated. That catch all statement from those who really don't have a clue what they are on about and can't back up their claims. Yet are arrogant enough to think that they know better than anyone else.

Get educated, I ask you

@7Days
I don't claim to be an advocate for people who are trans but I don't think that we or anyone including policy holders have the right to tell anyone else what is important to another person.
I'm actually just a middle aged person who has a trans son. Transitioned female to male but don't because of that consider that I have any less or more say than another person.
However I do feel that gender is an identity, it is something that a person prescribes to. I don't feel as a woman I have a right to say my being a woman only belongs to me or to one type of person (or people born female). Sex isn't that in my opinion, it is a physical function that you can opt in or out of. I'm not sure if that answers your question.

Although, you know, ten points for 'hyenas'

The world is changing, gender is changing, sex is changing.

So sex absolutely exists and JKR is wrong to suggest that some people don't believe that sex exists, but sex is also changing.

No room for an alternative opinion or different view.

It's like gravity. You can have an 'alternative opinion' on it but you still don't float off into space because it exists the same to everyone regardless of what their opinion on gravity is.

This concept is known as

'material reality'

The point that JKRowling made.

Water is wet, gravity stops you floating off the planet and humans have binary sex.

I suggest that some problems on here get educated.

I suppose you're one of those people who think we only discuss prams and nappies on here.

You say that you are informed parents. What would you be saying if your child said to you that they aren't happy with their gender & had gone to the GP or had an assessment & this had medically backed up that they should be assigned to a different gender?

If my child (back then -- they are now adult) was not happy with his/her "gender" I personally would ignore a GP who told me that child should be "assigned a different gender". I find that notion horrific, coming from a GP.

I, personally, would take him/her to India and let them do an informed course of Hatha Yoga/Meditation. Hatha Yoga is excellent for getting mind and body aligned and in tune with each other. Meditation is excellent for training the mind to not to identify with any set of attributes, whether male or female, but to find a more balanced sense of self, independent of gender roles.

That's what I personally would do. I'm not sure it would work for every one or every child but I know it works.

Sex isn't that in my opinion, it is a physical function that you can opt in or out of. I'm not sure if that answers your question.
Sweet Jesus...

Chocolate50
The fuck are you talking about now asking people what books they've written. Fuck off with your high horse bullshit. What now your suggesting that you have to write a bag full of crappy books to have an informed opinion. Fucking fuck off.

Winning hearts AND minds

I’m shocked by the turn this thread has taken shocked I tell you - brownies are much better than lemon drizzle

@truthfairy

Sorry you are confused *@datum* Let me spell it out more clearly. Suggesting that somebody who supports trans women is "aligning themselves with men who say they want punch, rape and kill women for saying sex is fucking real." on the basis of some tweets you have read is hateful and trans phobic. For starters you are deliberately misgendering transwomen. Hope that clears it up for you.

Pronouns cannot function as correction fluid for those who are dissatisfied with reality.

Everyone thinks different things are important. That's life. Your child will be and should be your priority. But facts remain, and this -

Sex isn't that in my opinion, it is a physical function that you can opt in or out of.

might be your opinion, but it is nonsense in terms of physical reality.

Which bit of ''you can't change sex' do you gave difficulty grasping?

And why do you think that shouting at us is going to make us believe that you can?

I have empathy for your situation, but you cant force us all to become complicit in your parenting decisions. Sorry.

Pronouns cannot function as correction fluid for those who are dissatisfied with reality.
God, I love this 👍

Sex isn't that in my opinion, it is a physical function that you can opt in or out of.

I am unclear on this. Are you saying that you believe the word sex refers only to the act of procreation?

Still laughing about the get educated comment.

Like I said, this is not twitter. You are going to have to do better than that if you want anyone to take you seriously.

I respect your opinion Gibbons, but you are wrong. Lemon Drizzle rules

@Lamahaha now that is a facetious answer isn't it? of course a GP would not diagnose a young person, but they may have concerns and your child or young adult would have the right to go and discuss their own gender issues with a GP, who may refer them also. I am not talking just about gender dysphoria for the person who commented either. I already know that someone who is or is not wanting to be the opposite sex is not necessarily suffering from gender dysphoria. This is a separate diagnosis.
However I stand by my question, what would you do if your child was really suffering with wanting to be a different gender? this might be an uncomfortable question, but it is not repeat not the impossible, at least a few people here will be faced with this. What are you going to do? your child having a period would not be the first thing on your mind I guarantee you that.

I don't feel as a woman I have a right to say my being a woman only belongs to me or to one type of person (or people born female). Sex isn't that in my opinion, it is a physical function that you can opt in or out of. I'm not sure if that answers your question.

Your belief that you are or aren't a women is completely irrelevant to the rights that can be taken away from you because you are a women.

However I stand by my question, what would you do if your child was really suffering with wanting to be a different gender?

There are a number of threads here on FWR where this issue has been examined by women who are living it. I suggest you search for them instead of derailing this thread.

It's just sponge with crap on top. I mean, come-on....

Bottom line - your child's deeply held, sincere belief that they have a gendered soul which doesn't match their biological body is neither here nor there. I don't share that belief, but I respect their right to hold it.

What does matter are the political implications of that belief.

Is it a private belief, private to that individual, like a Catholic's belief in an immortal soul that goes to heaven, or a Buddhist's belief that they will be reincarnated?

Or is it a belief to be imposed on the rest of us, by insisting that rapists with penises should be housed in women's prisons, or that people with penises and typically male musculature should be allowed to compete in women's sport, or that women should be forbidden by law from organising single sex provision for, say, rape crisis centres?

The latter, public implications for law and women as a sex are all I care about. Not what your child believes about themself.

However I stand by my question, what would you do if your child was really suffering with wanting to be a different gender?

There are a number of threads here on FWR where this issue has been examined by women who are living it. I suggest you search for them instead of derailing this thread.

Yes, a number of us have lived it. Feel free to spend some time reading around.

@chocolate50 You have made some really good points. Some of the responses here are appalling. Do they realise they may be talking to trans women, or their parents, when they say such insulting things?
I know two people who were probably on a par with mumsnet opinion wise before their children went through gender reassignment. One sadly cut contact. The other went through a huge learning process and is now incredibly supportive of their daughter and trans rights in general.