Young women don't know what a woman is

[BlackForestCake]

This is absolutely staggering.

The latest poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland on the subject of self-ID, finds that all demographics in their majority believe a woman is an adult human female.

Except young women.

"The 16-34 female demographic actually voted by a narrow six-point majority that a person’s sex has absolutely nothing to do with biology. Even the next-closest group (young men) was a staggering FORTY points adrift from that view (net -34), and middle-aged women were close behind them at a net -36. Among women over 55 the margin against self-ID was a crushing 62 points (over 4:1 against), with older men at a breathtaking 10:1."

wingsoverscotland.com/abolishing-women/

A horrible statement in itself. It starts from a position that there is somthing wrong with the child that needs to be fixed.

Michele Moore said she works with lots of children with disabilities, one key point she makes is that they have to learn to accept their bodies despite them frequently being awkward and difficult and not working quite as they should, as it is the only body they have, so it can't be the wrong one.

Yes, because unless they're in a position of taking advantage of the ideology, such as Sally Hines and the like, well-educated professionals often have the most to lose by saying "I don't believe this". I can't imagine my brother working away on the shop floor of a factory getting much grief by saying that a person with a penis is a man.

The results clearly show that most of those who 'believe someone is a woman because they say they are' actually don't believe that because of how those same people answer the subsequent detailed scenario questions. Which kinda proves that a lot of young women are saying this only because they think they ought to or have to.

Yes. Hugely telling. It's a ridiculous statement which makes no sense.

Children do need puberty blockers, hormones and surgery (as soon as they're old enough). It's only middle-aged men who can say 'I'm a woman' and that instantly changes their sex and makes their penis female.

The important thing is that gender-confused children are mutilated and sterilised and middle-aged men with a fetish are validated.

Thanks @OldCrone. That really is the message from TRAs and it's beyond parody.

Queer Theory is a very elitist and academic development. And a significant proportion of adherents of gender identity ideology are the so called well-educated, university types who have a lot of influence in political and civil service discourse. It's why so many areas of public policy have rapidly fallen for the nonsense we are seeing around us.
Those who aren't diehard fans of gender identity ideology still go along with it to be 'nice' and don't want to rock the boat by stating thoughts and opinions deemed to be 'controversial' in their social circles. They have also probably spent very little time thinking deeply about the implications of the things they parrot. People rarely form their opinions based on well researched arguments.

Brain maturity isn't complete until about 25. All humans are vulnerable to peer pressure, but the younger you are, the more worried you are about how other people think of you, especially in your age group. The desire to fit in and conform is strong. It's why teens claim to be rebels and different from 'old' people and parents, but they all look very similar to their friends with the same haircuts and fashions and clothing. We've all been there.

Society is more tolerant of men saying 'controversial' things than women, so even if a young woman might disagree with something, she is more likely to stay quiet or say the 'correct' thing instead. The self-righteous scoldings we get on this board from other posters passing through to tell us how awful and nasty we are ..... I seriously doubt those same posters would drop by male dominated sites like Kiwi Farms to wag their fingers at them.

A lot of women of all ages are so scared of being viewed as rude or not nice, like it's the most terrible thing ever. It's easy to see how a popular ideology can influence younger women to parrot phrases out of a desire to 'be kind'. Even if they don't actually believe it, as more detailed questioning shows.

Michele Moore said she works with lots of children with disabilities, one key point she makes is that they have to learn to accept their bodies despite them frequently being awkward and difficult and not working quite as they should, as it is the only body they have, so it can't be the wrong one.

My last landlady's nephew was born without feet and only one hand. I can imagine that he must have felt he was born in the wrong body -- something was definitely "wrong" with his body which he could see just by comparing it with other bodies. I can also imagine that he longed for a whole body, and knew that all the artificial aids he was given were not the real thing. But it was the body he had, and he had to get on with learning to live in it.

It's appalling that children with perfectly healthy, sexed bodies should be encouraged to think their bodies are wrong, and that cutting off parts or adding artificial appendages fixed "the problem".

A lot of women of all ages are so scared of being viewed as rude or not nice, like it's the most terrible thing ever. It's easy to see how a popular ideology can influence younger women to parrot phrases out of a desire to 'be kind'. Even if they don't actually believe it, as more detailed questioning shows.

The worst is the B word. Nobody wants to be labelled a bigot. Not is you're in your early 20's and at uni.
It's older women who don't care, and tell it like it is.

I was always gobby - even as a teen. Never ever been able to let a lie, well lie. Even as a small child I had a very strong sense of telling the truth. I’d have a very hard time at uni these days wouldn’t I? They’d probably burn me.

Expel you, most likely.

In my experience, well educated professionals seem the most delusional of all, although I suspect in many cases, it's fear talking.

Never a truer word was spoken.

Not sure they are "Well-educated" as opposed to educated at length and great expense. So much education today seems to be about fostering conformity and orthodoxy rather than critical awareness.

For the ones pushing this who're well meaning and a bit dim rather than actively trying to mislead it's always struck me that they don't seem to have interacted with a child since they were one themselves, as they don't seem to be aware that if you feed kids confusing nonsense they'll try to make sense of it as best they can, resulting in some very odd interpretations.

Yes, I think this happens a lot, though surprisingly even with teachers. There is a sense that young kids in primary school are cognitively ready to talk about even the most difficult subjects, so long as you present them the right way. Sexual issues, and genocide, etc.

Often the argument goes, well some kids have to deal with these things and have no choice, so we must be able to talk about them.

So right lama The born in the wrong body narrative is so cruel and ignorant.
No one is born in the wrong body and I can't believe schools are being forced to teach our children this.

Dh is a huge footie fan and I can remember when Glenn Hoddle was sacked as the England manager because he made some ridiculous comment about people being born disabled because of karma or something equally daft and there was quite rightly a huge uproar. How can we go from that to this in a relatively short amount of time?

The results clearly show that most of those who 'believe someone is a woman because they say they are' actually don't believe that because of how those same people answer the subsequent detailed scenario questions. Which kinda proves that a lot of young women are saying this only because they think they ought to or have to

People genuinely believe all sorts of confused and contradictory things. I really think you have to accept that these women are not lying to pollsters out of fear - though what they have to fear from a pollster I am not sure - but that they genuinely believe what they have said.

Michele Moore said she works with lots of children with disabilities, one key point she makes is that they have to learn to accept their bodies despite them frequently being awkward and difficult and not working quite as they should, as it is the only body they have, so it can't be the wrong one.

But lots of us with disabilities choose to have surgery or treatment to correct or reduce or alleviate the effects of the disability. Do you think everyone should be forced to accept the body they are born with, even if medical treatments are available to change it?

As an adult - have all the surgery you want. As a child no. And you still can’t change sex. All you are doing is chopping bits off. HTH

Binterested

The surgery I had for my disability was when I was a child (well, 15) and I'm immensely grateful that the surgeon suggested it, encouraged me to have it and persuaded my parents that it was the best for me as they had been dead set against doing it. I don't disagree that children should always be counselled to accept their disability and their bodies. If other options are available then I think they should be shown all possibilities and then helped to make their own decisions about how to proceed.

I guess there is a difference between treatment to overcome a disability , to correct a fault, and a treatment to create a fault by destroy healthy and correctly functioning tissue

But lots of us with disabilities choose to have surgery or treatment to correct or reduce or alleviate the effects of the disability. Do you think everyone should be forced to accept the body they are born with, even if medical treatments are available to change it?

You are speaking here of actual, physical, disabilities like the boy with no feet and two hands I mentioned above. Of course, he got treated for it, of course he was given prosthetic limbs as a poor replacement for real, healthy limbs.

Children who think they are the opposite sex don't have a disability, and their bodies aren't wrong. They have healthy bodies which should not be fiddled with as long as they are children -- including giving them puberty blockers which interferes with their healthy development.

attackedbycritters

But that's a different argument to the one put forward in the post about Michelle Moore.

Lamahaha

I was responding to the post about making children with disabilities accept their bodies and their limitations. I fundamentally disagree with this

one key point she makes is that they have to learn to accept their bodies despite them frequently being awkward and difficult and not working quite as they should, as it is the only body they have, so it can't be the wrong one.

Bait and switch. Bait and switch.

Michelle’s point is there is no such thing as ‘born in the wrong body’. If there was people with disabilities would use this terminology but they don’t. We are born in the bodies we have - we are not souls slotted into bodies and sometimes slotted into the wrong body. We are our bodies. Sometimes those bodies don’t work very well and we do what we can to improve that. But there’s no such thing as a body that doesn’t fit the soul that’s living in it. That’s supernatural bullshit. Magical thinking does not help children.

No, the point was exploiting people with disabilities and using them to make the point that they are told to accept the body they are born with. Im disagreeing with that post.

Sometimes those bodies don’t work very well and we do what we can to improve that.

Which is what trans gender people are seeking to do, no? Trying to change their bodies to improve their lives?