Young women don't know what a woman is

[BlackForestCake]

This is absolutely staggering.

The latest poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland on the subject of self-ID, finds that all demographics in their majority believe a woman is an adult human female.

Except young women.

"The 16-34 female demographic actually voted by a narrow six-point majority that a person’s sex has absolutely nothing to do with biology. Even the next-closest group (young men) was a staggering FORTY points adrift from that view (net -34), and middle-aged women were close behind them at a net -36. Among women over 55 the margin against self-ID was a crushing 62 points (over 4:1 against), with older men at a breathtaking 10:1."

wingsoverscotland.com/abolishing-women/

All those medical interventions start from a position of something not working right (for want of a better word) and the intervention is to fix or improve it. A body moving through natural puberty is "working right" and doesn't need to be halted, a penis or vagina is "working right" and does not need to be removed.
A closer comparison would be if I (with normal hearing) wanted cochlear implants. And any doctor who helped me with that would be breaking their oath.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

You know full well that's not what I'm saying.

A cochlea implant doesn't give you hearing by the way. Its can help give some hearing, but it's not comparable to having functioning natural hearing, and it can't help all deaf people. It's not magic robotic ears. I know my son is deaf.

Not all disabled people can be helped, and even the ones that can be helped can often not be cured 100%. I spend a lot of time with children with disabilities, and belive me if they or there parents could fix them or identify their problems away they would.

Yes we provide help where we can, but we can't fix everything and at some point we have to accept our bodies flaws and all. We can't all just identify out of disability. The same as you can't identify out of your natural born sex. You need to learn to accept it. And surgery and drugs often do not help people come to terms with their metal health issues.

A closer comparison would be if I (with normal hearing) wanted cochlear implants. And any doctor who helped me with that would be breaking their oath.

Or someone that wished to be disfigured deliberately, then go through multiple operations to try and fix the disfigurement.

Dammit I’ve been telling my sister - you’re not going blind, they’re just not wishing hard enough.

Isn't that the point, people are realising they want to move past gender and sexual orientation being such a hard stuck label, I'm not surprised at all that young women are open to rejecting historical gender roles.

It's cus we have the Internet, it's never been so easy to have so many humans all communicating at once and people who havent felt comfortable with the roles and mannerism tradiontionally associated with their gender/sexuality have safe spaces online to share their feelings, I think thatits a big upheavel in society right now, just like when people realised that we shouldn't own people as slaves after spending many years sneaking into their homes and kidnapping them, but during that process of moving along I'm pretty sure a lot of people in countries like america were sat bickering over their god given right to own slaves just like people are sat here bickering over issues that might not even effect them personally, it's just an idea they don't like.

I think that in 50 years when those girls are elderly adults, their kids and grandkids are going to be a lot more open, accepting and loving towards people who are different, maybe in 100 years it won't be classified as being different anymore. And we'll look back at this like slavery, human beings have a right to live their life how they choose to live it, not how someone else forces them to even if that someone else is the current ideas of society.

A closer comparison would be if I (with normal hearing) wanted cochlear implants. And any doctor who helped me with that would be breaking their oath.

An even closer comparison would be if a person with perfect hearing was demanding that a doctor should make them deaf, because they 'feel like' a deaf person.

Or this:
metro.co.uk/2018/10/11/living-with-body-integrity-identity-disorder-a-condition-that-convinces-sufferers-to-amputate-their-own-limbs-8023938/

If you're going to make a comparison with disability, it's not like disabled children having treatment to improve their lives, it's like those with no disabilities wanting to become disabled because they feel that their healthy bodies are 'wrong' and don't fit with the disability that they identify with.

Slavery. Slavery? How bloody offensive.

@NekoShiro with the greatest respect what the fuck are you talking about?

Slavery = feelings.

Oh my eyeballs.

young women are open to rejecting historical gender roles

theyre not rejecting them at all- they are enforcing them. they are the ones saying being female is a 'role' rather than a biological fact.

people are sat here bickering over issues that might not even effect them personally

of course it affects us personally if you change the meaning of woman, eliminate all single sex spaces and pretend that being a woman is a choice.

In 50 years when those girls are elderly adults, their kids and grandkids are going to be a lot more open, accepting and loving towards people who are different,

No one has the faintest problem being open, accepting and loving towards people who are different. It's when being 'open accepting and loving' is twisted to mean 'surrender your rights, spaces, language and privacy' and 'I'll report you to the police unless you lie' that people start going - hang on, how is this 'loving'? Why is this 'accepting' and 'loving' not reciprocal?

Because when it's 'do what I say or else, even when it negatively affects you' that isn't love, it's abuse.

maybe in 100 years ...we'll look back at this like slavery

Are you fucking kidding me?

Have you the faintest idea of how insensitive that is and how ignorant it makes you look? You clearly haven't the first clue about what slavery was, or who it affected, or what actually happened, or that it involved real people with real problems. No, being sold, branded, beaten, forcibly raped for breeding, having your children sold away, treated as animal labour..... is not the fucking same as saying to someone your biology does not change no matter how much you wish it would, and I won't pretend about that.

human beings have a right to live their life how they choose to live it, not how someone else forces them to even if that someone else is the current ideas of society.

My point exactly. Female people have a right to live their life how they choose without being forced to pretend that some kind of alchemy changes males into females, forced to surrender their language, spaces, right to homosexuality, right to meet and define as a group, and to be allowed to retain privacy from people born male, even if that is the current idea of society. Live and let live. Female people did not start this.

And the second time someone's appeared on this thread to scold everyone for not respecting other people's opinions and being 'loving' to those who are different -

while not respecting their opinions, and definitely not being loving about their differences.

Hypocrisy on crack.

Gaslighting more like

young women are open to rejecting historical gender roles

You've misunderstood - genderism is about reinforcing gender roles not rejecting them.

I think that in 50 years when those girls are elderly adults, their kids and grandkids are going to be a lot more open, accepting and loving towards people who are different, maybe in 100 years it won't be classified as being different anymore.

Yes, I can't wait for men to finally start accepting transgender males as men without deeming them so unmanly they must be women (women being merely people-who-are-not-men). I also hope that in 100 years these males won't be classified as being different anymore.

If men want to wears women's clothes and make up, and women want to cut there hair a be masculine - then brilliant. I'm all for that, I think it was called the 80s.

The problem with the approach today is its about not accepting people for being different. It's about pushing people into boxes. If a girl is masculine, we don't accept her. We tell her she's a boy and must have her breasts removed and take hormones to aline her body with her mind.

If a boy wants to be flamboyant, we tell him he is therefore not a boy and is actually a girl.

Thats not acceptance. It's the opposite.

So my sister - has had the same buzz cut for as long as I can remember and generally wears ‘men’s’ clothes.

Sorry kiddies, but she has been doing this oh so modern and edgy activity since the mid 80s. You haven’t invented anything.

I think that in 50 years when those girls are elderly adults

...they’ll be like this 🤦‍♀️ going “what the hell was I thinking?”

Thank god when i was a teen the worst toy generally did was get a dodgy haircut or buy some god awful clothes.

It's disingenuous to conflate corrective surgery and medical devices that enable disabled people to live better lives with medical and surgical procedures carried out on people with healthy bodies and organs in the name of transgenderism.

As OldCrone explains, the correct analogy is people with healthy bodies who have a strong desire to amputate themselves so as to better align with their 'disabled identity'. Should we be celebrating and encouraging people with such ideas? Funding medical centres that cater to their desires?

This link describes the historical link between the disabled / amputee identity phenomenon and transgenderism.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1224766770805866499.html

A snippet from the link I posted.

20 years ago I was called in to help on a Horizon that was the strangest I've ever worked on. I flew out to Germany to interview a man who wanted to have a perfectly healthy leg removed. The man believed his inner innate identity was as an amputee.

His psychiatrist was an erstwhile student of Money, Russell Reid. Like Money he'd long been fascinated by people who were sexually aroused by the idea of being amputees (amnepotophiles) but by the 90s he began to argue this wasn't a fetish. It was their core inner identity.

He compared this to 'gender identity'. Reid was at the time the UK's biggest expert in transsexual care & provided influential expert testimony during the passage of the Gender Recognition Act (2004). Reid argued doctors should always affirm transsexuals' gender identities.
Otherwise he said they would commit suicide. He now took the same approach on 'Amputee Identity', referring the German & another patient to a surgeon to remove their chosen limbs. Reid's argument was if medics did not make their bodies fit their inner identity...
..they too would commit suicide. It's true a few people did try to self-amputate and some others threatened suicide. But even Reid drew the line at a woman who said she was always meant to be quadriplegic.

So who said he had the right to choose who was ‘worthy’ and who wasn’t?

By his reasoning if a perfectly healthy person said they wanted to be killed then he ought to do it (or not if they would commit suicide anyway) rather that get them psychological help.

The person conflating those issues was the one who chose to state that children with disabilities are counselled to accept their bodies and the issues they present, rather than given surgery to alter them the inference being that anyone who identifies as trans gender should do the same.

Why bring people with disabilities into this argument at all? We aren't some kind of prop to shore up your arguments.

It’s all they’ve got. Trying to make an argument out of something so ridiculous. It’s like arguing with a small child why they can’t have Jelly for breakfast

But it’s nice
It’s got fruit on it
It’s got water in it
It’s just like having a bowl of strawberries
It i waaaaaaant it
If I get it o won’t even ask for anything ever again

Hooves, if you don't want people to bring up disabilities at all, why were you highlighting them earlier?