Trans Widows' Escape Committee 4 - A New Hope

[TinselAngel]

Who would have thought we'd make it to thread 4?

Let's have some mutual pats on the back for the amazing support women on these threads have given to other trans widows, and the accidental consciousness raising that has come about as a result of this community.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

We now have a website which has been very well recived, and if any women who have contributed to these threads would like to write their story for inclusion on the website that would be wonderful.

Do post to get the new thread going. Links to the website and previous threads will follow.

As ever our thoughts are with the women still stuck in these relationships- check in, we do worry about you.

@MaureenJSL it isn't HRT - that's what menopausal women have to replace their own dwindling natural female hormones. It's cross sex hormones - alien to the male sexed body. Hang onto that fact and use the right terms when talking about it with him!

I don't really know where to turn to at the moment, I am wanting them out, we are in separate rooms, but looking at the citizens advice information because their name is on the mortgage, I can't actually make them leave.
My argument to this is that they contribute nothing to the household and haven't for a number of years and why should I continue to support them? Why should they be able to live as they want for free, with no responsibilities
. I have been looking at online dating sites, but find that my situation is so bizarre that no man is interested in me. I can't even say how long I have been separated because I'm not, yet I am. So confused with life. I feel so lonely at the moment too, because I don't see anyone except those in the house, and I feel I can't make contact with anyone either because of the situation with the girls Dad.
Any suggestions on what I can do would be really helpful.
Feeling very confused and lonely at the moment, whilst she sits there in her wig and clothes, and we just can't seem to talk about it.

@Iworkmiricles Are you married to him? If yes, there is someone you can turn to - a good divorce lawyer. You jointly own the house.

Everything you write says this relationship is over. What's stopping you? An independent you, free from the stress of a meh relationship would be the best thing you could give your kids.

lizziebun I'm struck by how badly you want to make this work, and how you kind of assumed with each progression of his 'journey, you wondered whether YOU were the problem.
You quite clearly aren't. But I think women in this position often think they can somehow stop the juggernaut.
I get why you want to stay married but don't feel very optimistic that this will be reversible. Many women on this thread have decided to sit tight, for financial/legal/children reasons, and to give it time to see whether their partners change their minds. I've no idea how many do, but on these threads you'll find a lot of women whose hope was dashed.
So you may need to sit tight to really be sure that this is permanent; on the other hand you may feel you are giving good years of your life - including the opportunity to have more children - while you wait.
It's really distressing when you believe in marriage (I'm not religious, but I got married and regarded it as something unique, and permanent), and you find yourself facing this. But remember that this is pretty much out of your control. I don't imagine the situation will revert to how it was, and I'd be rooting for you, what you want, and your future.
If you want a solid marriage and more children, at some point you may need to cut your losses. Crucially this was not your fault or your failure.

efully find love again, maybe have more kids with someone who'd actually like to be a dad. I have so much guilt like maybe i caused this somehow. it's so sad and confusing... but here we are... I can't wait to get to know you all

Sorry about the blurb at the bottom, not sure what happened there.

Really tough for you miricles. And you're right, you can't make them leave. I guess you'll need to decide to formalize that by seeking legal advice. Some solicitors give a first short session for free to outline your rights, which might help.
You might need to ask for a proper discussion, sit down, have a written list of what you want to say/ask. And find out finally where he stands and let him know how you feel.
You can do that quite kindly, laying out the need to separate properly, so that he can get on with his new (brave and stunning) life, and you can start again. That can sound quite reasonable and kind if you want it to.
If you hit a brick wall, you either sit tight and wait (I'm not sure for what, given how bad you feel), or get advice.
You need some sort of financial clean break; it might mean you have to sell up, but being financially independent and free is really liberating. I certainly struggled to see our joint household income going on secret 'female' props, so I don't know how you will tolerate supporting him on an ongoing basis.
Sounds like time to lay it on the line? I'm wondering what's stopping you.
Not that it's easy of course...

Maureen sorry you feel so alone - that's what we're here for.
You hit the nail on the head when you say that you can't flick that switch BECAUSE he's your husband and child's father! It's intolerable for many women, we just don't hear much about them in the media as there is only interest in those women who stay.
For many of us it was intolerable to live with and see, upsetting, repellant, offensive, distressing.
Don't beat yourself up for not seeing what was to come; you couldn't have known and like many women in your position, you waited and hoped it wouldn't escalate. That's you being committed, kind, positive...
I'm not surprised you're hoping he'll leave; in the end I had to ask my husband to leave because he would have stayed put. Only you know how long you can wait until - if he doesn't leave, and you don't magically feel okay about the hormones and the hair removal - you do.
He may not have had any challenge from the counsellor about other causes/problems; we've noted on these threads a lot that therapists tend to 'validate' and support, and often don't or can't challenge this.
This is a long process, and very painful and lonely. No wonder you are starting to grieve your hopes for a family life; I never ever expected to be divorced/estranged and it is a wound I feel several years on, and imagine I will always have as part of my life story.
But it doesn't mean you can't survive and thrive. Work and children are a great focus.
Try to give you energy and attention to working out what you want, what you can do, and what you need.
We're here.

@lizziebun Welcome to the thread, I am glad you found us.

I'd endorse what social said. You clearly so desperately want to make it work, but for that to happen both parties have to want that. It sounds like your husband has checked out, he's on the path to transition. These days I think there are not many males who change their mind.

Even if he did, given how much he has lied to you, how can you ever trust him again? I hope your religious community will support you as it is clearly not your fault. Even if they don't though (I don't know what religion you are), you will be OK.

Given he's already started on the hormones, even if you did get together again its unlikely you would still find him atractive or ultimately want more children with him. Is this really a situation that you would want to being more children into? I think there comes a time in this when you have to come to terms with your future not being the future that you had planned. It is not an easy thing to do, but it enables you to move on. You have no control over this, what you do have control over though it your own life and that of your child

Maureen you say
At this point he says he doesn’t have plans of more than electrolysis and HRT.

Well, sorry but I think he would say that. He will likely be minimising for the sake of an easy life. What he is saying is possibly strictly true in that he cannot make plans for the rest of the process until he has begun it, and these are the first stages. As it goes on, you are unlikely to start magically feeling better about it all. We've all been through the denial / bargaining phase.

Don't feel bad about not getting out sooner. We all hope they will change their minds.

Iworkmiricles For goodness sake don't think about dating yet! You need to be away from this relationship and do some healing or you'll likely embark on something disasterous. I get that you are lonely but honestly, don't go there.

As previous posters have said, you need legal advice about putting the house on the market or buying him out. I don't know if you are married? This does make a difference. Find out where you stand legally and then you will be able to make plans.

Maureen, it also occurs to me that "just"'cross sex hormones and electrolysis is actually a pretty bloody big deal.

@TinselAngel 👆

@socialworker222 yes it seems very unethical that the counseling is just validation and no work on other issues. Just facilitate a person upend their life and the lives of a spouse and a child will no effort to ensure other conditions are not at play (there are). Follow the money I guess.

@TinselAngel very correct. It is a big deal! So very in a bargaining phase. Infuriating that I and so many others have had to go through this.

@SocialConnection good point about the hormones. In this case they are not “replacing” anything.

Back and forth today between anger and anguish. The self-centeredness from him is not helping. They seem to be making a small effort but would take a lot more to get back to the friend level let alone a platonic partnership to raise the little one. Sometimes I am thinking that would be doable for the near term but some of that is just from wanting to avoid hassle and expense. Plus having so much else going on.

Thank you all

@magicalrabbit19 I have reported your post. This is a space for trans widows not for trans people. If the women here wanted the view of a trans person there are numerous places online they could go for that.

Indeed, they get enough of it at home.

Thanks for being supportive rabbit re. women feeling inadequate or at fault in these situations.
However, this forum is for women experiencing a partner transitioning, and not feeling okay about it.
Trans organisations offer similar validation of these choices, and acceptance of those truths and if women want that, they can find it in those groups where partners can get information from that perspective.
Many women on this forum are sceptical that what their partners are experiencing is 'gender dysphoria', and certainly don't regard themselves as in a lesbian co-parenting situation afterwards. Many of us don't regard our partners as women after transition.
You may want to offer support in another forum where people are seeking a trans perspective, from a position of accepting that ideology. I'm not sure that the transwidows thread is the place for this. I hope you find the right place to offer your perspective.

On a separate but connected note, this is a very good recent article.

uncommongroundmedia.com/forced-teaming-feminism-lgb-and-trans-rights/

lizziebun, something else that I intended to say, but missed out is that from what other women have told me, it is not unusual for AGP males to fetishise pregnancy. I'm currently in a conversation with a trans widow on twitter whose ex husband made himself a pregnancy belly and breasts to wear while she was pregnant and talked about how he wanted to breast feed the baby.

I know another trans widow whose ex boasted on Twitter about how he lactated, when in fact he had a cyst. (not envy).

Personally I feel very strongly about our role as a mother being appropriated. My ex has his faults but I will give him credit for my daughter still being able to call him Dad.

What benefit is it to the child to pretend their male parent is anything other than their father? None at all as far as I can see it only benefits the vanity of the father.

Anyway rant over for now, but what I'm trying to say is if you feel strongly about this too, do not be afraid to stand firm as you will not be being unreasonable

You are right Maureen. Person-centred counselling should not be directive, but let the counselled person explore their feelings and options.
A lot of resource has been put into support services for trans people but non-judgemental, non-directive counselling needs of women facing this crisis are overlooked.
I have knowledge of this kind of field and suspect many therapists feel anxious about things like letting people 'misgender' or not accept the 'truth' of a man's feelings in these situations. I had counselling (fantastic in the end) including coming across a counsellor who was clearly completely gobsmacked by my feelings and unable to do more than suggest I 'accept' that my husband was really a woman.
So women seeking counselling need to tread with care and certainly avoid trans organisations which offer support to spouses if they are unhappy or want to leave, as women's experiences of this appear to be largely re-education and pushing of ideology. Which is not what you need when you're trying to work out your feelings and options.

My apologies if not appropriate.

I've been reading comments about agp men fetishizing pregnancy and lactation, and in other places menstruation and breasts.

But I wondered if any transwidows have been subjected to menopause mimicking and fetish? Is fetishizing that absolutely universal female experience, including for trans men, even an agp thing?

Seems unlikely, given it's not glamorous.

Hello everyone again. Following on from AGP chat I’ve spent lockdown educating myself online and via you tube.
My husband hasn’t reached levels of wanting to use clearly female only abilities in fantasies such as pregnancy and breastfeeding, the roles he has created for himself are centred around being a secretary or a maid being forced into work and lord knows what else.
He is still following cyclical patterns of playing out fantasies, feel shame, purge, feel frustrated, purchase, do it again and repeat, over sometimes months sometimes weeks.
Over the last 3 years the attention has definitely turned to online activity from him with less physical dressing himself, he has grown a beard. He follows lots of transitioning and post op woman via Instagram etc, trying to engage in 1:1 chat with them lots of comments on their photos, you are gorgeous hun etc.
I wondered if this progression was caused by having teenagers in the house which made physically playing out fantasies more difficult, that accessibility to images was much easier and mainstream in recent years or he can’t for whatever reason take the final leap to transition so is living the fantasy through others who have .... sorry I am rambling on with my thoughts in trying to understand ...

You aren't rambling and I think you have analysed his behaviour accurately. Start thinking about what you will do when your teens leave home and he starts to escalate, try to have a plan in place before it happens.

I'm not trying to freak you out but he sounds like he has a sissyfication/submissive fetish, and if thats the case he isn't actually suppressing his urges because the teens are at home. The shame of 'what if they knew' is part of the fetish. His behaviour is massively inappropriate now.

Don’t worry I am no longer freaked out I have been living with this for nearly 30 years (we met very young). I have described it as having a partner with a hobby they cannot share but are so into they will prioritise it over family, work and obligations. It is literally an addiction which needs to be fed or it eats the host up. They live a double life of sorts looking for ways placate their urges whilst at the same time feeling great shame and embarrassment. My husband has fallen in love with his post op friend, having never met or talked in RL. Weirdly it is this with has been the final straw rather than the neglect of me and my family. We are 10 days post my saying enough is enough we need to separate with the best interests of the children in mind. I feel free and relieved it’s finally been said.

@lizziebun

You wrote:
^I am grappling with whether or not to divorce him or keep hoping he changes his mind. I am very religious and don't believe in divorce and believe a marriage is forever. I have asked him though and he said he will not go back to being a man. i'd love to move on and hopefully find love again, maybe have more kids with someone who'd actually like to be a dad. I have so much guilt like maybe i caused this somehow. it's so sad and confusing... but here we are... I can't wait to get to know you all