Trans Widows' Escape Committee 4 - A New Hope

[TinselAngel]

Who would have thought we'd make it to thread 4?

Let's have some mutual pats on the back for the amazing support women on these threads have given to other trans widows, and the accidental consciousness raising that has come about as a result of this community.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

We now have a website which has been very well recived, and if any women who have contributed to these threads would like to write their story for inclusion on the website that would be wonderful.

Do post to get the new thread going. Links to the website and previous threads will follow.

As ever our thoughts are with the women still stuck in these relationships- check in, we do worry about you.

@TinselAngel- I think the idea is not to create blame for either side as far as the kids are concerned. To keep it neutral- we (parents) can no longer live together. Which is technically true.

Surprisingly, during the counseling session, spouse owned his past bad behavior and didn't attempt to blame shift. But it really doesn't matter much at this point. I just need to get off his roller coaster and have some peace on a daily basis.

It's a tricky balance isn't it? I certainly ensured that my ex announced the news, not me, so that it was very much his responsibility. I did all the work around it (working out timing, introducing the news and immediately saying it was not an issue to do with them or me before handing over to him). I then made it very clear when I asked him to leave and initiated divorce that it was my decision (my ex wanted to stay), so that my kids new transparently exactly where the different responsibilities lay. Generally the entrenched lore with break-ups is that no'one badmouths the other, but I think it's also important, particularly with older children, to be calmly transparent about exactly what happened... good luck Southern

I would say that we should NEVER believe a single thing they say. They say whatever they need to say in that moment to get what they want or to get people off their backs.

Guidance for new GRA Consultation: Spousal Exit Clause www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4071101-guidance-for-new-gra-consultation-spousal-exit-clause

Related thread.

It's a tricky balance isn't it? I certainly ensured that my ex announced the news, not me, so that it was very much his responsibility. I did all the work around it (working out timing, introducing the news and immediately saying it was not an issue to do with them or me before handing over to him). I then made it very clear when I asked him to leave and initiated divorce that it was my decision

So did I.

I'd be happy for somebody to explain here what the benefit is of sharing the blame when it's really one party at fault because I could be missing something? It sounds like facilitating them to me.

Just posted part 2 of Dr Em'a essays about trans widows and domestic abuse on this thread: this one is about gaslighting.

Late transitioners, domestic abuse and trans widows www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4069208-late-transitioners-domestic-abuse-and-trans-widows

Last night DC started to cry all of a sudden saying they miss their dad, they can't remember what he looks like, will they ever see him again, can they speak to him for just 5 minutes. I tried to soothe them but it felt empty as I couldn't tell them anything helpful. They asked if I have his phone number which I don't. But even if I did a 5 minute conversation isn't just that. It leads to hopes and expectations of more which cannot be delivered.

I did a bit of digging to see if maybe he has detransitioned, as he surely will once the attention and validation stop. But he hasn't.

What can I say to my DC? The truth is that they may never see their dad again. I can't predict what he will do, but I am hoping the time will come when the DC realise that he isn't worth shedding tears over. When I was little I loved a person who disappeared from my life. It wasn't until I was 15 that it suddenly occurred to me that the person clearly didn't care about me or they wouldn't have gone away. I never cried again after that.

If you really love a child surely you put their needs first? I just can't understand it. Does he not wonder how the DC are feeling or getting on in life? I mean, wtf? How can a person do such an abrupt about turn that it's as if nothing and no one in their previous life existed. How cruel.

Should I show them photos of how he was, and focus on the memories? Would that be helpful or would it make it worse? Do I bring him up in conversation in a normal way, or avoid mentioning him? I don't know what to do for the best.

Really difficult Cannons and depends on the age of the children I think. I kept bringing 'Dad' up when he'd gone, so it felt normal, and he hadn't been erased or disappeared (he managed to make that happen without any help from me). In some ways I don't think you need to deal with the 'trans' element of this - it's like any other situation where a man leaves his family right now. The issue of who he now is, what he wears and does, is going to be for him to deal with.
Over time I've stopped mentioning him, and as they get older they will work out what they want to do about him.
Probably helpful to validate how they feel (it must be hard, it's very sad isn't it, it's okay to feel angry/sad) and you will have to say that you don't know when they will see him again. You can note that lots of people live without a Daddy at home and do just fine. But you can't make it not have happened, or not devastate your children. It's really hard to see their pain up-close.
They need other people in their lives to be actively involved and take pressure off you, and distractions galore.
Your penultimate paragraph could have been written by my youngest child, who cannot believe a parent would do this to children. My ex was utterly entitled, presumptuous and took everyone around him for granted; it's unforgivable not to properly engage with children, explain, answer difficult questions, and get the brunt of their pain and anger. So many men are cowards and just run away leaving, guess who, Mum to sort it out.
But they will be okay. It's a tough road, but they have you.
Re. photos, I wouldn't churn it up unless they ask to see them, or you end up by chance looking at them. You can explain their childhoods to this point, and who he was... after that it's entirely his task.

@socialworker222 Thanks, that's all really helpful. I'm sorry your children had to go through this, but it sounds as though they have reached the age where they can process it. You're right, it doesn't matter what he's doing or wearing or calling himself now, the point is he left. I will continue to try to comfort my DC and when lockdown lifts let them visit with friends and have lots of nice experiences. I don't have family nearby and the DC don't get much enjoyment from phone or skype conversations. But I do remind them that their grandparents love them very much and that they are fortunate to have them. When I tell them that other children in their school live with just their mums they say but at least they see their dads which is true. But there are also children with no parents at all. All of that they understand and for the most part they are fine, but occasionally, like last night, it all came out :(

Coming here to vent because there's nowhere else I can do so (and always, many thanks to Tinsel and Mumsnet for providing this safe and anonymous forum!)

My ex and I are relatively well-known in our field for professional projects we did together. Some idiot on a website is talking about one of those projects, says that the site should be rewritten to use my ex's current female name for the work we did together 20 years ago as a married couple. I am just furious that someone thinks this is even vaguely okay, to completely rewrite MY history and who I married, out of some stupid sense of political correctness.

I'm not going to publicly comment on this, because I do have to be very careful about what I say about my trans ex under my own name, but I am just furious over this nonsense.

Thanks for listening to the rant!

Surely that's the same etiquette as work published by a woman who later married and took her husband's name: work published before the date of the name-change remains in the original name.

Jan Morris' publications before transition are by James Morris: the announcement of the successful ascent of Everest was not made by Jan Morris, but by James Morris.

@QuinnMovesOn People just don't think these things through, and it's upsetting and frustrating. Is there anyone who could post a response on the same website? Hopefully the name changes won't happen anyway, but at least it will be a chance to put an alternative viewpoint out there.

@TieYourCannons- that is so heartbreaking. I too cannot understand how someone can do this to his children. As a child of an absent and serial adulterous father (not exactly the same but definitely crappy parenting), I do know that kids eventually figure out who the selfish one is in the equation.

@QuinnMovesOn - that is infuriating and makes me so mad on your behalf. This rewriting of others' history is deeply disturbing It's essentially societal gaslighting.

I am at my in-laws for what is likely the last time. They live a few states over. I love these people so much and they are going to be so devastated by this information when spouse finally tells them (whenever that may be). I am struggling with all the memories of when we first came here. It's where we got engaged.

And the bad news of 2020 keeps on rolling in I am going to need surgery in a week, potentially a hysterectomy. It's really screwing with my mind. And a friend of mine was just put in hospice. She is 42 with three children 10 and under. She only found out last month she had cancer and now she likely won't be here for Christmas.

Meanwhile, it's transawareness week or whatever the heck it's called and spouse is retweeting messages about people being accepting of trans people. Not sure why he feels the need to do these things but stay in his closet. And the repeated protestations of how much he loves me. If you love someone, you don't desert them to wear a freaking dress.

@QuinnMovesOn that is infuriating. I do hope your work remains unaltered and is permitted to list the authors correctly as of the time of publication.

@TieYourCannons it is so very hard on the DC and for you as you try to help them navigate. I’ll never understand the cruelty.

@TinselAngel & @SouthernTW oh yes here there are so many complaints about how much the laser hurts. There are so many different brands and types of razors in the bathroom it is mind boggling the the obsession.

@TinselAngel part two of Dr Em’s article struck a chord. Especially the part about devaluing the wife. There were a few choice overt times where he really let the mask slip and now little digs here and there. Vain attempts as thankfully from the support I’ve found I know what to expect.

@HollywoodTease I feel you on the emotionally empty.

I finally got the chance to go back and read Part 2 of Dr. Em's article. I want to shout these stories from the rooftops. I hate that the prevailing narrative is of all of these women who just suddenly "become lesbians" and support their husbands transitions when what is really happening is these terrible stories of abusive behavior. It also drives me bonkers that there are so many mental health professionals who are supporting these "transitions."

What a crap week this has been. My friend died on Monday, leaving those poor three kids without a mother. And I just keep thinking how her husband keeps saying he would do anything just to have more time with her and then there's mine who can't wait to take my children's father away from them. Sigh.
I had surgery yesterday so am home recuperating as we prepare for American Thanksgiving. It keeps hitting me that this is our last one as a family of four. I'm tired and melancholy.

@SouthernTW

What a crap week this has been. My friend died on Monday, leaving those poor three kids without a mother. And I just keep thinking how her husband keeps saying he would do anything just to have more time with her and then there's mine who can't wait to take my children's father away from them. Sigh. I had surgery yesterday so am home recuperating as we prepare for American Thanksgiving. It keeps hitting me that this is our last one as a family of four. I'm tired and melancholy.

The last times are awful, but on the other hand you do get to look forward to not being so miserable next year. I particularly remember my "last" Christmas. Thank goodness I've not got to go through that again.

I'm sorry about the loss of your friend. What with that and the surgery it is imperative that you look after yourself (or get others to look after you) and take it easy. Remember you are the one who is maintaining reality, if you go down the whole ship goes down. Your health is absolutely paramount.

What are your plans for a Thanksgiving where you don't run yourself ragged?

It's just the four of this year (given COVID and the surgery and the circumstances of our messed up life right now). And spouse usually cooks anyway. I won't be cleaning up much this year.
This is his holiday. I am all about the Christmas. Which is why in the separation agreement, he gets the kids on Thanksgiving and I get them on Christmas instead of alternating.

I am not in a good place mentally. I need what my grandma would call a "come to Jesus meeting" and for y'all to talk some sense into me.

Spouse is confusing me greatly. He now "feels more connected to me than he has since the beginning of our relationship" and "feels conflicted about leaving" (although he did buy things for his new place during Black Friday sales, but still no lease signing). He tells me he loves me. He asked me on a date for Friday. He wants to know if I would "take him back" if after he "explores his gender identity" he decides "not to go through with it."

He's looking for a soft landing if it all goes pear shaped, and he wants you to be his shoulder to cry on. Wouldn't it be a great deal? He moves out to "explore" whatever, and he can still rely that you're there waiting for him if he feels like he wants to return to his old life, if just for a moment.

(Please don't go along with that.)

Yes he just wants to know you're there in case it all goes wrong. He's reeling you back in and will no doubt discard you again. Watch this video about the idealisation and discard cycle.

Look - you deserve better than being someone's backup. What do you want for your future? Instead of waiting to be "left" when he decides to, how about you tell him to go?

@SouthernTW

I am not in a good place mentally. I need what my grandma would call a "come to Jesus meeting" and for y'all to talk some sense into me.

Spouse is confusing me greatly. He now "feels more connected to me than he has since the beginning of our relationship" and "feels conflicted about leaving" (although he did buy things for his new place during Black Friday sales, but still no lease signing). He tells me he loves me. He asked me on a date for Friday. He wants to know if I would "take him back" if after he "explores his gender identity" he decides "not to go through with it."

Fuck that for a game of soldiers.

He's hedging his bets, and he's making sure that he's in control.

My suggestion would be that you take control of schedule.

Has he got a new place now? If so I'd suggest he moves into it.

If you keep being his prop once you're not together you will never be free of the drama.

I'm more direct than your granny, I suspect.

SouthernTW I have not had your experience but I do drop in on this board when it comes to the top of the pile. There are lots of women on FWR who are profoundly sad about the situation transwidows find themselves in. Someone like Tinsel has the knowledge to help you through but I am guessing this is not a great journey. What I do know is how manipulative men can be, that is evidenced by all of the women's stories on this thread.

@SouthernTW confusing indeed. I get much the same feeling as the others that have commented. That he is hedging his bets and impression I get trying to ensure he can slip back to his “old life” like nothing happened should he find he doesn’t want to commit to his new life. But the thing is that there has already been an impact to you and to your children. That impact doesn’t just poof go away.

A suggestion I’ve seen in other places (and probably here as well) is to look back at your posts and your account of your experiences. If he is back and forth on his decisions are you game for going through the same things again?