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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"My 15 yr old trans son is going through menopause - and I'm so proud of him"

398 replies

bettybeans · 18/04/2020 02:49

http://www.essentialkids.com.au/health/health-wellbeing/my-15yearold-transgender-son-is-going-through-menopause--and-im-so-proud-of-him-20200416-h1nfe0

Christ almighty. I have been trying very hard not to go in heavy on parents of trans kids who make decisions that I simply don't understand but this whole situation just brought out absolute fury. The way she speaks about this process just enrages and saddens me in a way I can't adequately articulate. It's quite simply terrifying. I feel like I'm reading about a baptism or something.

This kid didn't stand a chance and it's absolutely heartbreaking.

OP posts:
Hannah021 · 18/04/2020 14:57

God, she didnt read the literature !!! you cant put ur child through hell and self doubt and delusion, and even right when taking these scary injections not bother educate yourself about it!! That poor child has no idea what he's doing and lacking support from a stupid parent

Pertella · 18/04/2020 15:14

she didnt read the literature

Astounding isnt it. It didnt occur to her that the childs symptoms could have had anything to do with the drugs they recently had injected into them until they remembered to read the literature.

I still cant get past that!

Singasonga · 18/04/2020 15:21

A lot of teenagers these days are going to have a much more informed view of the world because of media and general knowledge.

Does that include the ones who now buy into the idea that COVID-19 is caused by 5G masts?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 18/04/2020 15:49

A lot of teenagers these days are going to have a much more informed view of the world because of media and general knowledge.

No. Anybody can say anything on the internet. That doesn't make it true. Traditional media in the UK had to comply with the law and trained journalists and their editors had some standards - not always adhered to, and there's always been bias in the media, but decent journalists would check what they were told and decent editors would print corrections where necessary.

It's like the Wild West on the internet. Anybody can start up a YouTube channel or a blog or make a post on social media claiming absolutely anything. Credulous people come across this stuff. They want it to be true so they accept it totally uncritically.

Teenagers are particularly impressionable. They're not all taught to think critically at school or at home. They have little life experience to help them see when something or someone is dodgy. They read less than previous generations. They don't watch much mainstream media. Their general knowledge is sadly lacking in many ways. Also, some parents spend very little time with their children and have little idea what they're doing and seeing online. This leaves the teenagers very vulnerable to grooming and developing obsessions.

TammySwansonTwo · 18/04/2020 15:53

I trust medical professionals, it's modern medicine and it's gone through stringent processes where they must inform the patient of side effects

You must be joking. Zoladex has destroyed my health and the issues I still face more than a decade later were never discussed with me. Doctors won’t even acknowledge the link, to me demonstrably proven by the thousands of women who’ve experienced identical issues, let alone know why it’s happened or how to fix it.

Have you even heard of mesh?

Wake up.

R0wantrees · 18/04/2020 16:00

I trust medical professionals, it's modern medicine and it's gone through stringent processes where they must inform the patient of side effects

Which medical professionals?
There are many medical professionals who have been whistle-blowing the failures to meet Duty of Care & Safeguarding requirements in the way children have been treated by gender clinics.

These include professionals who have worked within the 'gender' services.

Goosefoot · 18/04/2020 16:07

I know it seems crazy that a parent wouldn't read up on all the details of the drugs, but if we change the context a bit, I suspect that it isn't unusual. How many parents read all the literature on other serious drugs doctors prescribe for their kids? I think for man, there is an assumption that when a doctor prescribes insulin, or chemotherapy, or Ritalin, they know what they are doing and have the expertise which the parent doesn't.
Medical science is just complicated enough that being under medical care often means putting yourself in the hands of other people.

Do you think there's any possibility of there being 'real' trans people? I say this just because a lot of the comments in this thread seem to think there's not?
I think there's some confusion over hating your body and true body dysmorphia, my understanding is that trans people feel trapped by their biological features, such as breasts and penises and therefore want to get cosmetic surgery to change that, or use hormone blockers to stop breasts growing etc

I suspect that part of the reason people have a hard time thinking about this is there is a very concrete sense of the definitions in mental health disorders. As if they are categorised in as solid a way as something like a broken arm or being anaemic. People don't really have an awareness of the degree to which something like anorexia, say, is culturally specific. Presumably there are mental processes of some kind that underlie these across the human species, but we don't always know a lot about that.

We know for certain that there are people who develop issues with disassociation with their body, and at least in our culture, their sexed bodies specifically. There are also people who develop them with regards to other parts of their bodies. But we would not typically say that such people are "really" disabled, for example, or should really be very think, or have smaller noses, whatever.

There seems to be some evidence that some people with dysphoria around the sexed body can alleviate some distress by presenting as if their sex was different. That doesn't make them "really" anything, and more than someone who pretends to have a disability is truly trans-abled. It's just a rather limited way of coping with a situation where someone hasn't found a better solution.
There seem to be a number of reasons people disassociate with their bodies, but it's pretty common for teens to do so to some degree as their bodies completely change. It takes time and experience to reintegrate, for almost anyone. But when you have a generation raised with little ability to cope with any mental o even physical discomfort, and a narrative that says its abnormal to feel that way and may mean you are "really" a different sex, they are not well equipped to do so.

Aesopfable · 18/04/2020 16:09

it's modern medicine and it's gone through stringent processes where they must inform the patient of side effects

It is being prescribed off-licence which means it hasn’t gone through any processes for this purpose. The drug company are not prepared to put their name behind it; it is up to the doctors prescribing it to risk their indemnity insurance should anything go wrong. The Tavistock Clinic started an experimental cohort (which they had to look round for a sympathetic ethics committee for after the first one rejected it) but never reported the results. The results we do know are not positive but harmful. It is constantly being sold as a ‘harmful pause’ despite the being told that they mustn’t sell it this way. There aren’t any long term followup studies to tell what the safety and efficacy are. So no, people haven’t been fully informed of side effects because they can’t be because it is all experimental treatment (or at least would be if someone actually recorded the results)

Goosefoot · 18/04/2020 16:24

Oh, as far as access to sterilisation - statistically regret about self-chosen sterilisation is not uncommon, even in older people.

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 18/04/2020 16:25

A lot of teenagers these days are going to have a much more informed view of the world because of media and general knowledge.
I disagree. Every opinion, no matter how whacky, finds validation on the internet. Thirty years ago you had little access to information that hadn't been moderated in some way. You had to put effort into finding like minded people. The Internet changed that. Teens don't have the critical thinking skills and some of them aren't ever going to learn them. It's a bad combination.

viques · 18/04/2020 16:26

I honestly wonder how much someone who thinks calcium is a vitamin really understands what powerful hormones are going to do to her child's body for the rest of their life?

MrsDoylesTeaBags · 18/04/2020 16:29

It all sounds so casual

I don't know why it took me so long to figure out why I was so uncomfortable with the term Trans Kids until I saw the Arti Morty YouTube video.

trying to use language to make them just seem like a tribe like emo's or goths for example or just abit different, but really what you are talking about is othewise physically healthy children and young people set on a path of medical and surgical intervention for the rest of their lives.

howard97A · 18/04/2020 16:40

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

R0wantrees · 18/04/2020 16:51

it's modern medicine and it's gone through stringent processes where they must inform the patient of side effects

No, people may wish this &/or believe this however there is a significant amount of evidence to the contrary:

Michael Biggs (Assoc Professor Oxford University)
'The Tavistock’s Experiment with Puberty Blockers'
pub July 2019
[http://users.ox.ac.uk/~sfos0060/Biggs_ExperimentPubertyBlockers.pdf]]

R0wantrees · 18/04/2020 16:52

apologies, clicky link
users.ox.ac.uk/~sfos0060/Biggs_ExperimentPubertyBlockers.pdf

Deliriumoftheendless · 18/04/2020 17:02

I agree about the internet causing teens to believe any old rubbish- we have kids who try to tell me the earth is flat because they’ve seen a YouTube video. A lot of young people are accepting anything on the internet at face value.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 18/04/2020 17:11

It's a perfect storm. An age where you believe your parents know nothing and yet you're easily led and have no common sense.

viques · 18/04/2020 17:11

its gone through stringent processes

So are you saying that somewhere there is a statistically viable cohort of 50 to 70 year olds who started to take these body changing medicines just after puberty and whose medical history has been logged and tracked ever since?

That's comforting to know.

Oliversmumsarmy · 18/04/2020 17:18

A lot of teenagers these days are going to have a much more informed view of the world because of media and general knowledge*

I would say no they don’t and even if they did they lack the life skills to put things into context.

What seems like a great idea in your teens might be your biggest regret by the time you get to 50.

That is why we as parents say no to things that will permanently damage our children.

Letting a child do what they want when they want to sustain their permanent happiness is not teaching them anything

Teaching them that sometimes you can feel sad or apathetic or angry etc is ok and these feelings will pass

Teaching teens that it is perfectly normal to feel like they don’t fit into their own bodies is a perfectly normal reaction to puberty.

That all the changes that their bodies are going through are just that, changes and at the end things will be alright

Trying to immediately fix something that doesn’t need fixing by surgery and powerful hormones instead of letting nature take its course is a recipe for a tragic life.

Aesopfable · 18/04/2020 17:27

The internet closes down thought and knowledge not opens it up. It presents you what you want to see and you can block anyone you disagree with rather than having to engage with challenging issues. We talk about echo chambers on twitter etc but the whole internet is another echo chamber of our own designs. Teenagers can avoid anything that challenges their view all too easily.

SarahTancredi · 18/04/2020 17:28

It's a perfect storm. An age where you believe your parents know nothing and yet you're easily led and have no common sense

and theres a name for when people online exploit that situation , lie to vulnerable kids/young people, use it to isolate then from their families and promise them a safe space away from everyone , that in any other situation we would use and recognise what is going on.

Thinkingabout1t · 18/04/2020 17:56

what the world needs is more people who are truly comfortable being themselves – and who accept and celebrate others for doing the same.

She actually says that! Those are the mother's own words! Can she genuinely not see that her child is doing exactly the opposite?

It's beyond comprehension.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 18/04/2020 18:11

You're right, @SarahTancredi. Grooming is definitely what's going on in some cases. I'm prepared to believe that in some cases it's total naivete but not in all.

Aesopfable · 18/04/2020 18:13

Grooming is of us all - not just the teens.

SarahTancredi · 18/04/2020 18:22

I remain undecided whether NT intelligent educated adults have been groomed or whether as this pandemic has shown us, adults given power leads to corruption. Attention and power has always lead humans to crave more whilst simultaneously being unable to handle it. and as we know not all humans are good. Many will find the loophole in everything and cause harm.

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