"My 15 yr old trans son is going through menopause - and I'm so proud of him"

[bettybeans]

http://www.essentialkids.com.au/health/health-wellbeing/my-15yearold-transgender-son-is-going-through-menopause--and-im-so-proud-of-him-20200416-h1nfe0

Christ almighty. I have been trying very hard not to go in heavy on parents of trans kids who make decisions that I simply don't understand but this whole situation just brought out absolute fury. The way she speaks about this process just enrages and saddens me in a way I can't adequately articulate. It's quite simply terrifying. I feel like I'm reading about a baptism or something.

This kid didn't stand a chance and it's absolutely heartbreaking.

*ThisIsMyStory1
I do wish more permanent birth control was available at a younger age to all genders.

How many genders are there? How many of these genders can get pregnant?

They know they're not going to be able to carry or produce a child if they transition fully, but they do want to live their life as that gender and be accepted as that gender and I don't see anything wrong with that

The thing is, to a great extent they will never be fully accepted as the opposite sex' ( because they aren't) and in many cases later go on to feel that transitioning has done nothing to improve the quality of their life, and regret it.

and there are trans people who live life without the gender stereotypes of their identified gender, it's the physical attributes of their body that caused the issues, not just because they wanted to wear a dress

Can you give some examples?

@Lamahaha males can have the snip, very effective

If people know of all these risks and dangers and yet they're still desperate to go through with it, doesn't that show how miserable they are that they're willing to take that risk

People can make very bad choices when in a mentally fragile state. It should not be the job of professionals and doctors to mutilate healthy bodies, and to give life changing, health impacting hormones and drugs either. Counselling would be far more appropriate.

That daft Mermaids list is every teenager, ever.

Do you think there's any possibility of there being 'real' trans people?

If you mean are there people who are really born in the wrong body - no. It is impossible. Just as it is impossible to change sex.

If you mean are there people who have a distorted perception of their own body, then yes. We see this with anorexia and body dysmorphia as well as gender dysphoria. Though unlike gender dysphoria, it is not considered good clinical practice to indulge an individual’s perception of themselves in anorexia or body dysmorphia.

We also know that there is a sexual motive for men to dress as women -AGP.

A lot of teenagers these days are going to have a much more informed view of the world because of media and general knowledge.

Chidren & young people may have access to more information but this does not neccessarily always equate to knowledge or having the capacity/skills to evaluate the accuracy/bias of information available.

I trust medical professionals, it's modern medicine and it's gone through stringent processes where they must inform the patient of side effects.

Except we are increasingly learning that that isn't the case.

Mental Health provision is patchy, counselling is virtually non existent, and that is before you confront the problem of lobbying groups insisting that gender dysphoria is not a mental illness.

I've also seen a lot of people saying they'll never 'pass' but I think that's so untrue? A popular YouTuber was making videos for 10 years and only recently told the world she was trans, people didn't have a clue! She had blockers and surgery very early on as she felt she was born a girl

Social media allows people to present an idealised version of themselves to the world - always carefully lit, made up and filtered. It isn't real life.

and there are trans people who live life without the gender stereotypes of their identified gender, it's the physical attributes of their body that caused the issues, not just because they wanted to wear a dress

And yet if all starts with parents thinking their 2 year old might be gay and wanting to play with dolls. And while everyone elses toddlers and pre schoolers are being pulled out of dog bowls , making potions with shampoo and refusing to eat sandwiches cut the wrong way , theirs are somehow so articulate they are asking when God will come and give them a vagina/penis and correct his mistake...

there are trans people who live life without the gender stereotypes of their identified gender, it's the physical attributes of their body that caused the issues,

The majority of transwomen retain their male genitalia. And yes we know there are male so called ‘trans people’ who wish to access female spaces without making any changes to their masculine appearance at all. So if they are happy with their penis and wearing masculine clothes then what makes them trans because they tell us they are and should be allowed to get changed next to my 12 year old daughter in the communal changing rooms?

I do wish more permanent birth control was available at a younger age to all genders. If they make that decision and have researched it and gone through all medical avenues with doctors and sexual health specialist then I couldn't find too much to disagree with except maybe that it should be from age 16(18?) rather than 15 because sex isn't legal at that age anyway.

Permanent birth control (aka sterilisation) for children (under 18's)?
Do you really mean this?

I trust medical professionals, it's modern medicine and it's gone through stringent processes where they must inform the patient of side effects

The disquiet at what is going on in the name of trans ideology and the ethics that under-pins the medical and surgical side of it, is growing across the world.

You should read up on the exprieneces of the growing number of de-transitioners, who are now asking how it was ever considered acceptable for medical professionals to treat children and young people in such ways.

males can have the snip, very effective

You mentioned all genders. Can you name these genders?

it's the physical attributes of their body that caused the issues, not just because they wanted to wear a dress

This just isn’t the case though for older male trans people. The vast majority have no surgery, do not take hormones, do nothing to alter their male bodies. All they do is dress as women and then claim to be women. Hence the concept of the female penis which, if you do not accept it either linguistically or sexually, makes you transphobic.

It’s only the teenagers - mainly girls - who are being encouraged to undergo surgery. Girls who are at the very moment of maximum alienation from their bodies. It’s a horrendous thing to do to an adolescent girl.

We are living in a monty python sketch

They know they're not going to be able to carry or produce a child if they transition fully, but they do want to live their life as that gender and be accepted as that gender and I don't see anything wrong with that

The thing is, for M to F trans people there are issues which impact on women too. It is not o.k for male bodied people to compete in women's sports - no matter how they identify.

I can't see a huge clamour, either, from F to M trans people wanting to compete in men's sports, or to use men's facilities - for obvious reasons. Most young F To M transitioners are actually lesbians...and it is the heavily gendered female role models that they are rejecting - and very often the breasts - as a very visible outward sign of 'femininity'.

The existence of adults with actual gender dysphoria (which is not most trans adults... Hasn't the phrase been declared transphobic anyway?) isn't a gotcha supporting the transition of children.

Perhaps adults with dysphoria wish they'd transitioned sooner so they could "pass" (horrible concept) better.

The notion of passing is not that relevant to gender critical people because we accept gender non conformity and we don't believe it changes a person's sex anyway.

People who profess to care about those with actual gender dysphoria should be asking why mental health professionals aren't doing their jobs. Why aren't they investigating how much of a role sexism, homophobia, childhood abuse and trauma played in a person's subsequent transition?

Transitioning children because adults with dysphoria exist is not solving the family and environmental factors which may lead to actual dysphoria. It is setting them in stone, declaring them right and natural.

It's like prescribing all remotely glum kids methodone at 12 to save a very traumatised minority from having to steal to afford heroin. What tomorrow's addicts and genuine dysphorics need today is psychological support and sometimes family intervention. And society can help the latter by ditching stereotypes, homophobia and sexism and truly accepting non conforming children.

current thread, OP KeiraB wrote:

Hi all,
I'm Keira Bell from the Tavistock case, fighting with Sue Evans to protect young people from harmful "puberty blockers".

I just wanted to come on here to see if any of you had any questions and to thank you all for the support that I've received! Through coming into contact with the radfem community, I have heard a lot about mumsnet and how great it is and how lovely you all are. So, pleased to meet you! I hope you're all well.

As I'm sure many of you know, the Daily Mail are a tabloid and the article they had on me was not completely accurate. I would like to clear up a few points and all of the other intricacies will be cleared up via my witness statement in court." (continues)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3881347-Keira-Bell-from-Tavi-case-here-AMA

BBC
(extract)
A 23-year-old woman who is taking legal action against an NHS gender clinic says she should have been challenged more by medical staff over her decision to transition to a male as a teenager.

A judge gave the go-ahead for a full hearing of the case against the Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust.

Lawyers will argue children cannot give informed consent to treatment delaying puberty or helping them to transition.

The Tavistock said it always took a cautious approach to treatment.

Gender identity charity Mermaids said that people face a long wait for access to such services, that they can save lives and that very few people regret their decision." (continues)

[Keira Bell] "I was allowed to run with this idea that I had, almost like a fantasy, as a teenager.... and it has affected me in the long run as an adult.

"I'm very young. I've only just stepped into adulthood and I have to deal with this kind of burden or radical difference - in comparison to others at least."

Keira's lawyers will argue that children cannot weigh up the impact such a treatment might have on their future life, including for instance, on their fertility.

Former staff at the clinic have raised concerns that teenagers who want to transition to a different gender are being given puberty blockers without adequate assessment or psychological work.

It has been claimed that children as young as 12 have received the drugs, which block the hormones that lead to puberty-related changes like periods or facial hair.

But she also understands why teenagers arrive at the clinic deeply distressed and desperate to change their gender.

"I did say the same thing years ago when I went to the clinic. I would say it was saving me from suicidal ideation and depression in general and at the time I felt it relieved all those mental health issues I was feeling, alongside gender dysphoria." (continues)

www.bbc.com/news/health-51676020

A lot of teenagers these days are going to have a much more informed view of the world because of media and general knowledge.

And yet despite all that knowledge which adults know includes the human brain making reckless decisions as a teenager and not being mature until mid-20s, some people are encouraging teenagers to mutilate their bodies in the name of transitioning.

I feel that your reasoning is flawed.

I’m really struggling with this. I can’t imagine my child being given drug treatment, them becoming ill and only then some hours later wondering if their symptoms were related. It all sounds so casual.

A lot of teenagers spend time on social media, including dubious chat rooms etc. I don't think this type of media really does much to improve general knowledge. I think it can spread disinformation and increase anxiety a lot of the time.
It is difficult enough for experienced adults to sort out the truth from the propaganda much of the time.
Teenagers are vulnerable, easily groomed and subject to peer pressure.

it's the physical attributes of their body that caused the issues, not just because they wanted to wear a dress

This is not necessarily true. Particularly of the male late transitioners who started out as what we used to be able to call, transvestites.

It all sounds so casual

Yes the language has been sanitised far too much.

Puberty blockers- prostate cancer medication.

Top surgery-double mastectomy
Bottom.surgery- phalloplasties have huge failure rates. Creating a neo vagina in someone who has taken lupron is a really complicated procedure.

A fifteen year old boy cannot go through menopause, it would be highly unlikely for a girl to do so at that age. What is the woman on? Her son is far too young to have had such treatment, what happens if he changes his mind at 19?