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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Just had a blazing row with dd

207 replies

steppemum · 10/04/2020 15:24

So, dd is gender non binary, has changed her name and want sot use them/they pronouns.
This is the end of a long process of about 4 years, she is 15.

I am supportive up to a point (she can call herself what she wants)
But I have gently pushed back against the theory behind it, as I am GC.

We have just had a blazing row. She said that 70% of the victims of DV were men.
From a 'very big and respected men's rights group' that have 'proved' that these are correct and that men's rights don't get any media attention, like the poor bloke who died in Australia at the hand of his wife and she didn't go to jail.

I'm afraid I flipped my lid. Lost my temper and gave a a full force lecture about feminism and the oppression of women. Gave a her a load of statistics about number of women killed every week by their partners, about women begging for help with stalkers who then kill them, about the 2 families in the UK killed since lock down began by the MEN, about how as a women she will face, discrimination, glass ceiling, physical danger, etc etc, because whether she likes it or not she is a WOMAN, and women have faced that since the beginning of time, and so no, my heart doesn't bleed for the poor menz. She said in divorce women always get the kids, so I mentioned all the single mums whose feckless partners bugger off and leave them with no money and no support holding the baby.
She gave me a load more fake statistics from her men's rights group. which she can't name.

I am so so fucking angry. I hate the fucking internet.

So, apart from my crap parenting, does anyone know the men's rights group she may be refering to, and can anyone counter these statistics with facts? Not just police report facts, (they are apparently all biased) but does anyone know how I can dig behind her facts to see where they come from?

OP posts:
Oncewasblueandyellowtwo · 10/04/2020 19:53

Sorry posted to soon, i wonder if someone used this from wikipedia,changed it to 70% or man are victims of DV and that's where your dd got that stat from.

Childrenofthestones · 10/04/2020 20:28

The 70% of non reciprocal violence figure being women doing the hitting was in an article in the guardian last year along with the figure of of 40% of domestic abuse victims being men.

LOLeater · 10/04/2020 20:40

I share your frustration as my two daughters laugh at my feminism. My DH does not laugh and is 100% in agreement but so many young women have grown up not seeing the reality that was experienced (and is still experienced) by women.

Sadly they will learn and we don’t want that 🙁

15 year olds learn. And you’re the brilliant mum who she will come to learn from. Stay strong OP. You’ve got this and you are right.

popehilarious · 10/04/2020 20:49

The Karen Ingala Smith links above explain some of what pp are speculating about.

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo · 10/04/2020 21:53

Children

I searched for that but got a guardian article from 2010 that says more 40% of DV victims are men.Do you have a link?

margaretjohnson · 10/04/2020 22:09

don't want to assume anything here but if they choose to use they/them pronouns at the age of 15 you should respect that choice. They are old enough to understand.

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo · 10/04/2020 22:29

margaretjohnson

Did you read the OP?
It's not about their child choosing they/them pronouns.
Please read the thread, or at least the op's posts.

nettie434 · 10/04/2020 23:12

I think the Karen Ingala Smith links posted by WomanDaresTo are really important. It is rare for a man to be murdered by his female partner. Sadly, as the femicide census shows, most women are murdered by a partner or other close male relative.

I also think that financial abuse is rarely spoken about except in relation to people with dementia etc but there seem to be so many posts on here from women for whom it c fit the criteria have no money of their

SirVixofVixHall · 10/04/2020 23:16

Get her Caroline Criado Perez’s book - Invisible Women- Exposing Data Bias in a World Designed for Men .

TheBewildernessisWeetabix · 11/04/2020 00:48

She's going to be mad as hell when she finds out she has been lied to.

BeetrootRocks · 11/04/2020 01:02

Thing is she's 15 and all 15 you know better than their parents!

Also going off at her, we're all stuck in together at the mo which is not great for anyone.

At 15 it's normal to want to get away from parents and be out with friends etc.

I understand you're pissed off. But I honestly think it would be best all round of you tried to drop it. Of course she's spouting bollocks but she probably won't listen to you.

You could say, where did you get that info, can I read it, I'm interested as it seems to go against what I thought etc etc and take it from there?

Coyoacan · 11/04/2020 01:03

LoLeater, much as I understand your frustration with your daughters, I find this but so many young women have grown up not seeing the reality that was experienced (and is still experienced) by women something to celebrate. It breaks my heart to hear of women who have had miserable childhoods because of their sex.

twoHopes · 11/04/2020 07:27

I don't think it's that big a deal that you lost your cool. I had a similar experience with my mum in a restaurant when I younger. My brother was doing the whole "sex work is work", "you're stigmatising sex workers" bit and my mum lost it. I was really embarrassed at the time and wasn't sure what to think but it definitely stuck with me how upset my mum was about this. I think I already knew deep down that this whole "sex work is work" thing was wrong but it made me question it much more. Same with my brother who has now completely changed his tune.

twoHopes · 11/04/2020 07:37

Also - sadly I think that as she grows up she will see from personal experience how DV disproportionately affects women. I was 16 the first time I saw a woman getting attacked by a man (outside my bedroom window in the middle of the night, my dad rang the police). I was 19 the first time one of my friends told me her boyfriend had hit her. Unfortunately there have been many more stories since then.

HorseRadishFemish · 11/04/2020 08:06

I've heard that two women die at the hands of their partners each week in the UK.

Does anyone know how to find out the equivalent figure for women killing their male partners?

Surely that would be a more reliable comparison? Hard to hide deaths.

HorseRadishFemish · 11/04/2020 08:09

Ah...

Just seen kit's post.

Message to self - read threads properly before jumping in!

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 11/04/2020 08:20

I was really embarrassed at the time and wasn't sure what to think but it definitely stuck with me how upset my mum was about this.

I think that kids, especially about that age, do pigeonhole parents - especially mum - as olds who know nothing and don't understand. I think that losing it, showing you're human, with knowledge and passion isn't a bad thing occasionally helps - maybe not immediately, but she's going to remember that (probably for the rest of her life - there's a couple of arguments with my mum from that age I'll never forget), and it will prey on her mind, it will niggle at her and hopefully eventually open the door to critical thought and more research rather than blind acceptance.

nettie434 · 11/04/2020 08:23

I found this on the Office for National Statistics website, Horseradishfeminist. 38% of women killed by a partner or ex partner, 4% of men. I don’t think the ‘partner’ information is separated by men and women (but have not downloaded dataset). Even if there are no men partners included in that 4%, the discrepancy is still enormous.

Tootletum · 11/04/2020 08:33

I do wish it was like the early 90s, when the biggest argument I had with my parents was whether the Beatles were as timeless as Mozart. All this gender shit just fucks with vulnerable minds.

HeyDuggeewhatchadoin · 11/04/2020 08:41

Encourage her critical thinking skills about everything she is reading, seeing, being told (including by you). It's a great skill and I love this resource.

Just had a blazing row with dd
HorseRadishFemish · 11/04/2020 08:49

* ..*when the biggest argument I had with my parents was whether the Beatles were as timeless as Mozart..

I LOVE arguments like that. (Mozart rules btw.)

stillathing · 11/04/2020 09:07

I like that heyduggee, going to stick it on the fridge!

R0wantrees · 11/04/2020 09:11

This from wikipedia:
In relationships without reciprocal violence, women committed 70% of all violence.

Is there a source please?
Wiki will be quoting a finding from a particular study. Its important to be able to identify it, understand the context, terms of study etc

stillathing · 11/04/2020 09:12

I think that losing it, showing you're human, with knowledge and passion isn't a bad thing occasionally helps - maybe not immediately, but she's going to remember that (probably for the rest of her life

Very true. I still cringe with shame about the time I casually called my mum a hag aged 12 on the way to school. She was still upset with me after school, which was so out of character it really made me think about what I'd done. Sorry mum.