Men pushing in in queues and not social distancing.

[HeIenaDove]

I know in the scheme of things this is only small but its the bloody entitlement that gets to me.

When the new Coronavirus Bill came in last Thursday two men used the 2 m gap to try to push in front while i was queuing outside Tesco.

Re, social distancing , i try i really try to stay 2m from people at all times on the rare occasions but the amount of men who walk right next to me or towards me KNOWING that i will move.

This afternoon was the final straw Queuing outside Sainsburys observing the 2 m rule i had to wait until the queue moved to where the trolleys were . There was no way i could get to them BEFORE queuing and observe the 2m rule so i had to wait in the queue before i got to them. I leant across to put my pound in the slot and the FOUR men queuing behind me jumped the queue by moving along in front.

Im so fed up with the entitlement Every time its been a man EVERY TIME. Ive not seen this from women at all .

Football hooligans come overwhelmingly from the group of humans called men. Just like sexual predators.

I think I've just been NAMALTed..

You don't think patriarchy puts gendered expectations on women, Hooves?

Look up socialisation.

Sorry tinsel, that was to the previous post.

A) women are incapable of independent thought

I find it to be a remarkably robust, self-referential dogma. Women are remarkable, intelligent, independent, strong, superior beings, until they do something that conflicts with the debaters personal version of feminism, then they've internalised patriarchal beliefs.

The end goal of feminism is for women to liberate themselves from being annoyed by men? Sorry I'm not sure what you mean

The end goal would be to avoid those sorts of overly controlling or negative relationships and the types of men who are controlling and demeaning. We all have individual agency and responsibility; certainly in a modern, western nation - where full legal and civil rights have been won, and where we are free to choose; to act; to divorce..and so on.....

We often get caught up in past, negative conditioning...the goal, or one of them, certainly, is to free yourself from that conditioning - and unconscious/conscious expectation.

You see when I hear about fighting on the terraces etc. I do think - bloody men

I tend to picture fairly un-evolved and crude form of masculinity - of which some men are guilty.

Same thing with driving too fast and spitting. I'm sure there are examples of women doing these things but in my experience that's as rare as hen's teeth

Male spitting, is certainly a masculine social construction in certain sections of society. As for confident, assertive driving - I would say i'm a confident and assertive driver, myself...and don't conform to the dithering, overly polite, overly cautious/nervous female driver stereotype. The driving analogies are interesting - because your driving style does tend to reflect your own personality or nature, regardless of sex.

Maybe risk-taking is more of a masculine trait - and maybe even inherent in male nature; as would be recklessness.......but not all men are reckless; and not all women are placatory.

No as feminists we'd say patriarchy puts gendered expectations on women to do with beauty, femininity and appeal to the male gazeYes. Because women have been socialised into this patriarchal expectation.hmm*

If beauty is the only female power/tool then, yes.......but we have moved on from that in many respects these days in the West. although many women still like to be seen as pretty, and see that as their main selling point. I guess they'll attract the men that value that most of all in a woman. But males can preen too......

Preening behaviour is natural in many species.

Same thing with driving too fast and spitting. I'm sure there are examples of women doing these things but in my experience that's as rare as hen's teeth

I'm sure with regards to speeding, there will be statistics on that.
Plenty of women attend speed awareness courses, so I don't think it'll be as rare as hens teeth.

I said driving too fast

A quick search suggest men about 2.5 times more likely to be speeding

Significant but not at the hens teeth level

... Plenty of women attend speed awareness courses..

That has surprised me. Do you have the figures?

Cross post, thanks midge.

You don't think patriarchy puts gendered expectations on women, Hooves?

I think as human beings we are all capable of thinking for ourselves and making our own decisions.

If you are saying that gendered expectations are applied by the patriarchy and that women are incapable of ignoring those expectations then why aren't all women complying with them? Equally, men are also victims of the patriarchy, so if women are compelled to follow gendered expectations imposed by the patriarchy so too must men be.

So, men can't change their behaviour either and are compelled to follow gendered expectations, right?

Utter rubbish. We all have personal responsibility for the choices we make regardless of whether we are male or female.

I'm sure with regards to speeding, there will be statistics on that.

A FoI response from 2014 (FOIR4226) showed that 6.6% of male and 3.3% of female drivers had points on their licenses related to speeding offences. In 2018, the average man drove around 4k miles while the average woman drove 2.5k miles in the UK (Statistia Jan 31, 2020).

That has surprised me. Do you have the figures?

No, and I haven't been on one myself, but speaking to people who have, there is a mix of men and women.

said driving too fast

The archetype is that of the reckless, self centred younger male driver.....which is why insurance premiums are high for for them. Young males in nature over tend to be associated with thrusting, combative energy.......I'm sure testosterone is responsible for certain types of masculine drive and behaviour or attitude.......although as human beings with the possibility for free agency, we have the capability to modify our urges and drives.

That has surprised me. Do you have the figures

Being honest, I've had nine points for driving over the speed limit...although I'm very conscious these days of staying within the limits; i'm almost religious about it. I used to live in Aberdeenshire, and the car, and the open road, in magnificent scenery it was just so tempting...the thrill of speed; the feeling of liberation; the joy of it.....

Personally, I love driving...it is important to me; gives me a feeling of control and independence........women have egos and urges for adventure and quest and discovery too.

I think the reason that so many are countering the assertions about men being inherently more selfish, pushing in etc - is because it has been framed in such a rigid, dictatorial way....it just begs counter-balance and the playing of devil's advocate. When something is so polarised, one-sided, or so extreme, it is bound to result in a back-lash.

www.brake.org.uk/facts-resources/1593-driver-gender

The short version of the above, if it is accurate, is women are safer drivers. The stats are skewed to an extent because more men than women have driving licences and men drive more and for longer journeys.

I don't think the link below proves anything beyond it's an oddity.
www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/angus-mearns/641586/montrose-women-giving-boy-racers-a-run-for-their-money-as-speeding-concerns-increase/

According to this article women are more likely to exceed the speed limit but less likely to damage rental cars.

It's not the most scientific of studies.

cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/women-drivers-break-speed-limit-men-official/90189

Must admit to being surprised and by the stats (which I'm not challenging). I was talking about my experience. I don't drive or own a car. So walk or cycle everywhere. When I'm out and about most of that time it'll be in a 30mph zone and a car whizzes past me and my children, clearly breaking the speed limit it has always been a man. Honestly. Not making it up. Always. I suppose it's possible that the women speeders are doing it on motorways where I would not witness it or similarly down country lanes etc.

So yeah, can't argue with the statistics.

So walk or cycle everywhere. When I'm out and about most of that time it'll be in a 30mph zone and a car whizzes past me and my children, clearly breaking the speed limit it has always been a man

I love walking too......as well as driving, and speeding cars do make one feel unsafe in one's own environment - certainly in built up residential areas. I witnessed some totally reckless driving once.......a car was itching to over-take me ( I was within the 30 speed limit), so much so that it did so in a frankly dangerous position, just as we were turning into a narrowed lane....

The car proceeded to hit a male motorcyclist coming towards us - who was thrown from his bike. I stopped the car and jumped out. Fortunately, he was fine...just very shocked, understandably!

The driver of the car was a woman. I yelled at her..." what on earth were you doing?" " You were reckless, and this was your fault". It was!

She showed little contrition, and in fact seemed more concerned about her own feelings, and why was no-one comforting her......Honestly!