Men pushing in in queues and not social distancing.

[HeIenaDove]

I know in the scheme of things this is only small but its the bloody entitlement that gets to me.

When the new Coronavirus Bill came in last Thursday two men used the 2 m gap to try to push in front while i was queuing outside Tesco.

Re, social distancing , i try i really try to stay 2m from people at all times on the rare occasions but the amount of men who walk right next to me or towards me KNOWING that i will move.

This afternoon was the final straw Queuing outside Sainsburys observing the 2 m rule i had to wait until the queue moved to where the trolleys were . There was no way i could get to them BEFORE queuing and observe the 2m rule so i had to wait in the queue before i got to them. I leant across to put my pound in the slot and the FOUR men queuing behind me jumped the queue by moving along in front.

Im so fed up with the entitlement Every time its been a man EVERY TIME. Ive not seen this from women at all .

12th rule of misogyny: Women's ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.

Except women don't actually have a unified set of observations - my own observations are women's observations! So where's the discussion?

I believe the dogma states that you've internalised the misogyny

I dunno, maybe the feminist focus of the topic is eluding some posters. I mean, a number of posters said they had noticed a specific kind of behaviour from men, and the posters now so eager for a discussion about 'what the cause of that might be' started straight off the bat with fairly typical poo-poohing of specifically feminist analysis and discussion.

I do wonder if some people are lost when they rock up on FWR. Lots of places to discuss generalities about human behaviour, even on Mumsnet, even about Coronavirus behaviours. Never do quite get why some feel topics in FWR have to be steered well away from a feminist focus.

Think it was the aggressive tone rather than the point of view

Yeah, women and aggressive tones. Definitely need to express ourselves so that we are putting things across in the right tone.

Will you women please learn to be ‘nice’!

Sorry I had to say it.

Bloody hell there’s a lot of derailers on here tonight.

Helen Saxby: Women are not just expected to be nice whilst fighting for our rights, we're expected to be nice instead of fighting for our rights.

I dunno, maybe the feminist focus of the topic is eluding some posters. I mean, a number of posters said they had noticed a specific kind of behaviour from men, and the posters now so eager for a discussion about 'what the cause of that might be' started straight off the bat with fairly typical poo-poohing of specifically feminist analysis and discussion

There was no "feminist analysis" in the opening post. It was an anecdote hoping for responses which would be along the lines of "yes, men are terrible".

One of the first posters who politely suggested that bad behaviour is not limited to one sex was subjected to the "feminist analysis" of being called a liar and a man.

"Feminist analysis and discussion" in this thread is anyone who supports the OP's view. Anything else is "sea lioning", "merailing".

The sweeping generalisations, pathetic sexist jokes about penis size and the oh so superior tone (such "eluding some posters") are prime examples of FWR at its worst.

I shit you not... long queue at supermarket yesterday an elderly woman pushed right in the front and walked straight in despite the security guard who was managing the flow challenging her and trying to stop her. She glared at him and carried on straight in. Everyone just tutted and eye rolled.

I do wonder if some people are lost when they rock up on FWR

What a patronising comment

Never do quite get why some feel topics in FWR have to be steered well away from a feminist focus

"Steered away from a feminist focus" - i.e not agreeing with the concensus.

I was in cheese shop today- very clearly signposted only one customer at a time in the shop.

It didn't stop a woman barging in ahead of me when I was in the queue outside and when there was clearly a customer in the shop. Her excuse was she was there to collect her order box.

Didn't stop a second woman, once I was in the shop, barging in to collect her order box.

"There was no "feminist analysis" in the opening post"

Well excuse me for not providing a proper analysis during a pandemic. During this time i do have other priorities rather than making sure my posts meet an academic standard. Happy to start a thread about why attitudes like these make working class women feel alienated from feminism if you like!!! Hows THAT for analysis???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And i would call the pushing in behaviour out no matter the sex of the person doing it. Its just that in MY experience in the two
weeks of lockdown we have had so far ive had SIX men do it When a woman does it and if i experience SIX women doing it i will let you know.

Take that dido

HelenaDove - your original post has so obviously burnt a nerve with some other posters who fear what you said! Who have gone on and on and on about it, filling up the old bingo card with "NAMALT" and "women are just as bad", and all the merailing!.

Yes, I agree with you! It's been my experience too! And yes, it's bloody male entitlement.

And i would call the pushing in behaviour out no matter the sex of the person doing it. Its just that in MY experience in the two
weeks of lockdown we have had so far ive had SIX men do it When a woman does it and if i experience SIX women doing it i will let you know*

No one has denied it was your experience. It was the attempts to extrapolate your personal experience to be applicable generally.

Here's my experience today. At least 3 heterosexual couples who made no effort to not walk side by side forcing others out of the path/pavement. Two women barging ahead of a queue and entering a shop clearly sign posted "only 1 customer at a time". That's 5 women not behaving properly for the lockdown in 1 day.

My conclusions ? Some people are rude and thoughtless. I would not have even bothered mentioning it if it had not been for this thread.

HelenaDove - your original post has so obviously burnt a nerve with some other posters who fear what you said!

"Burnt a nerve" ? How ridiculous

Mind you I have to admire the ever more inventive and contorted language being used to try to shut up posters.

Dido, I think you should try chilling out a bit, perhaps? You seem rather stressed, all the considerable time you're spending on here, weirdly defending an anti-women compulsion - on a feminist message board??!!!

Oh well done OccasionalKite. Faux You seem very invested in trying to shut posters up.

Of course I only earned a deletion for quoting, rather than making, the offensive post which got you deleted.

It's a pity it was removed. I didn't by the way report it. I think it would have been better left to show exactly what you said in your efforts to shut up posters.

Faux concern. It's not becoming.

Dido, I am worried about you. Hope you're alright really. It is a difficult time for all of us, we know.

Pathetic, @OccasionalKite. Really pathetic.

Dido, you’re the one who’s spent about a thousand posts attacking anyone who has concerns about patterns of oppressive male behaviour or the existence of patriarchy.

You’re clearly very, very invested in shutting down debate and bullying women into not talking.

Ah. Dido is just "not like all the other girls"
Gotcha.

It’s beyond me why people can’t see the problem here.
Only a dozen or so posts in, someone called me man because my post was one of the first to declare the opposite of the opening post.
Someone else pointed out the obvious.
On a feminist chat of all places.
We’re not saying men don’t push in, we’re not saying women don’t push in, we’re simply keeping to the truth. It includes sharing our own very limited experience and observation since the lockdown began - which is true because it happened even if we account for the fact that people sometimes see what they want to see (human nature). It also includes pointing out miss- information, which was a lie, using logic and verifiable facts.

Fuck me, give DidoLamenting a break. Dido did nothing but argue, in a very clear manner, the fact that an opposing point of view was dismissed right from the start.

There would be a million explanations as to why men and women don’t observe the social distancing rules. I’m not a sociologist, I find the various explanations on here very interesting and some are credible. But the fact is we don’t know for certain why it happens.
We are trying to discuss it not argue over it because grownups have debates by sharing their points of view, listening to others’ points of views, drawing conclusions, being flexible or agreeing to disagree in an articulate fashion according to their own knowledge and ability to express themselves (it’s not a crime to not know something). Children and teenagers have tantrums or see things as ‘my way or no way’. And their vocabulary tends to include age specific expressions, known only to themselves (at least that’s my experience having spent enough time around these age groups).

If I was to add to the list of my own experiences that I recall: saw a couple I know very well to in the park when walking the dog the other day. Over the years, I have spent more time with the man than the woman am closer to him but equally comfortable with both. Our families are close. We were talking whilst being apart about 5m. The man stayed put, the woman kept edging forward towards me and I kept stepping back until I reminded her we should try and not get closer. It was instinctive, she is a very intelligent woman and she knows what distances are. He’s still a man, regardless of the fact that I know him. She’s still a woman, regardless of the fact that I know her. Maybe the men I observed around here are better at self preservation.