Mermaids is encouraging children to hide online searches from their parents

[jadefinch]

Surely this is a child safeguarding breach and is an example of child grooming?

The trans children charity Mermaids has created a button on its desktop website so that children can immediately jump to another web site if a parent comes into the room, presumably while either looking at Mermaids material or talking to someone at the charity, so they can lie to their parents that they were actually doing something else.

They've created this because more children are home at the moment during the coronavirus pandemic.

The charity has received further criticism in the last few days for not playing what could be an important role during COVID-19:

• They should be telling transboys to ditch their binders until this is over - the binders constrict the chest and lead to breathing difficulties, something that's potentially fatal during a pandemic where the virus targets the lungs; but Mermaids have refused to do this.
• They should be telling all young trans people to stay away from hospitals unless there's an emergency as non-essential treatment increases the risk of spreading the virus at the moment; Mermaids has not done this.
• They have instead asked people to buy more food on Amazon and set Mermaids up as the charity to donate a percentage of the money spent to - ignoring all charities concerned with NHS staff or the elderly that desperate need cash injections at the moment.

You're right, R0wantrees, of course. I was focussing on IT because it is the one area relevant to Mermaids' sphere of operations where SG has some relevant work experience. As far as I'm aware she is self-taught when it comes to gender issues.

'With many children’s centres, nurseries, libraries and youth services closed down or cut, “there will be the best part of 1 million children who have needed a social worker in the past three years now becoming invisible to professionals, just as their families come under unprecedented strain”, adds Longfield.'

If you are confident that it is not a safeguarding concern they need to hear about at the moment then I'll leave it to you.

If people have a genuine concern then perhaps it would just make sense to report it to someone who is in a formal position to address and report back on that concern

And what we can also do is discuss the shortcomings of the Mermaids approach on a parenting site so that other parents can be aware of the multiple concerns around the operations and ethics of Mermaids.

There is a broad spectrum between “acceptance” and “abuse”, and it helps nobody, least of all vulnerable children who may identify as trans, to obscure and obfuscate that distinction. Mermaids, among many other things that they do not understand, do not understand that.

Forgive me for being dense, but given that you said you are “trans and same sex attracted” and your clarification is ” Of course, I'm a trans woman (male) I am sexually attracted to men. Does that help?”

I honestly don’t know if you were born male but now present as female and are attracted to men, or if you were born female, now present as male and are attracted to men.

I can read it both ways! I think because people use the same words to mean different things it gets really confusing.

And what we can also do is discuss the shortcomings of the Mermaids approach on a parenting site so that other parents can be aware of the multiple concerns around the operations and ethics of Mermaids.

Parents /carers have the core Safeguarding responsibility for their children.

Resources for parents/carers whose children are questioning their gender identity:

www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/

www.transgendertrend.com/

4thwavenow.com/

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/

'And what we can also do is discuss the shortcomings of the Mermaids approach on a parenting site so that other parents can be aware of the multiple concerns around the operations and ethics of Mermaids.'

You're right, perhaps an AIBU thread would raise greater awareness as oppose to this particular section where many already have an opinion about Mermaids.

' As far as I'm aware she is self-taught when it comes to gender issues.'

I can only imagine her experience of having had a trans child who turned into a happy adult drives her opinions. Like you though, I often think the same about some of the prominent commentators from both sides of the divide.

They are actively telling random children to keep secrets from their parents.

Even those of us without any safeguarding experience absolutely know you should never do that.

Those of us with transactivist experience could give anyone a list of people who actively seek to get children to contact them secretly. Bergdorf inviting children to contact them off-piste, McKinnon and their glitter family, that twit last week on Twitter saying they'd spend an hour a day secretly talking to children, etc.

'Forgive me for being dense, but given that you said you are “trans and same sex attracted” and your clarification is ” Of course, I'm a trans woman (male) I am sexually attracted to men. Does that help?”

I honestly don’t know if you were born male but now present as female and are attracted to men, or if you were born female, now present as male and are attracted to men.

I can read it both ways! I think because people use the same words to mean different things it gets really confusing.'

You're not dense at all. I was more than happy to clear up any uncertainty resulting from ambiguity. The beauty and sometimes lack of clarity of language often results in freedom of speech so, ambiguity can be positive too.

And also anecdotal, with the exception of one, all the trans individuals i met at my uni pride society had faced verbal or physical abuse from their parents when coming out, and many were kicked out of home

I know two trans identifying * teenagers ( now young adults ) and I’m sure they also told their college pride society that they had been abused at home. That’s categorically not true, but it’s part of the rhetoric.

If anything, they were the perpetrators of abuse towards their family, especially their mothers and younger siblings. In one case their was significant police involvement to keep others safe.

Unless, of course, by “abused” you mean “ anything apart from unquestioning acceptance of a whole new religious ideology and belief system “.

In both families there was a huge amount of inappropriate behaviour from the trans identifying* young adults that has seriously damaged their siblings . One is now completely estranged from their siblings because of abuse that they have never taken any responsibility for. That person is now abusing lesbians and trying to get them thrown out of university because they won’t sleep with them.

• please note this is the term they use so I repeat their wishes

Mycat, as I understand it, statsgeek is what you and I would understand to be a transsexual - a gay man who has transitioned to adopt the gender expressions/roles culturally encoded to the female sex.

I completely disagree with their position on the thread, but more broadly, their explanation and willingness to be honest about their sexuality is something I respect.

I can only imagine her experience of having had a trans child who turned into a happy adult drives her opinions

Susie Green is CEO of an influential lobby group.

James Kirkup Spectator:
'Why are some MPs trying to shut down the transgender debate?'
1 May 2018

(extract)
[Polly Carmichael said] ...
To do that we need to be able to talk and discuss these issues. All too often stakeholders become lobby groups.”

She did not name any stakeholder. But her words might be relevant to a charity called Mermaids. Mermaids is a charity that describes itself as “a support group for children and young people with gender dysphoria and their families”. Its CEO, Susie Green describes herself as “parent to a daughter who was born male.” Mermaids is a relatively small charity (it had income of £127,000 in the year to March 2017) with a big reach. It has prominent backers and its advice and recommendations have been absorbed and adopted by many public bodies.

Some people in the gender debate say harsh and critical things about Mermaids. I am not doing so here. My suggestion is that Green, having had her own family experience of transgender issues, has decided to devote herself to charitable work in the hope of offering what she believes as help to others who need it. The same is true of several others who work or volunteer at Mermaids. Read this for a moving account of how devoted some parents are to Mermaids for their help.

Despite its influence, it is worth noting what Mermaids is not. It is not a research body. Its activities are support (for families) and advocacy: based on its contacts with those families, it argues for what it sees are better policies and practices by the NHS and others. It does not carry out or commission clinical or academic research. Its most recent annual report lists among its charitable activities “campaigning and advocacy” and says: “Mermaids has also become more active in lobbying”.

There is regular dialogue between Mermaids and the GIDS, but the two sides do not always agree. An example is on the time the GIDS team take to give referred children the hormone-blocking drugs that stop their bodies developing the physical characteristics associated with their birth sex.

In evidence to another Commons inquiry in 2015, Mermaids argued that GIDS should make such drugs available much more quickly. The GIDS team has generally resisted that call, more than once saying that “any decision around hormone treatment needs time and considered thought.”

And in evidence to that earlier committee, Dr Bernadette Wren of the GIDS said this:

“I know that Susie and Mermaids would like a fast track so that young people who are already well into puberty and feel that they know that they want to move forward into physical intervention would bypass our assessment process and move straight into physical intervention. We feel that is not an ethical way to practise.”

Here’s another summary. A transgender charity that says it is engaged in lobbying lobbied politicians and doctors to change the way children are treated by doctors. The doctors declined to make that change because it would be not be ethical to do so." (continues)

www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate-

Judicial review about GIDS 'experimental' treatment of children:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3804872-Keira-Bell

The feminist site is the third most popular board on MN, statsgeek, and an extremely well used source of support for parents of trans Identifying children, so I think it’s in exactly the right place. But do feel free to start that thread in AIBU if you think it’s necessary.

'Susie Green is CEO of an influential lobby group.'

As I said, I can only think that her particular experience of having a trans child and seeing them develop into a happy young woman getting on with life drives her opinions and actions.

That she would want the minute number (incidence wise) of children that find themselves in a similar position to have the opportunity at the same level of happiness does not surprise me. I think to want people to be happy in themselves is quite a common human emotion. Of course, not all agree.

'But do feel free to start that thread in AIBU if you think it’s necessary.'

Having seen that they are following a similar process to Child line, I am not of mind to think that would be necessary either. I am glad we agree.

This is cuckoo behaviour from Mermaids, as is part of the extreme genderist method on a wider scale.

Childline and a number of other websites set up specifically to assist victims of abuse have these emergency exit routes, and I think they serve a useful purpose in that limited sphere.

What Mermaids are doing here is the Genderist practice of magpieing aspects of other things they seem useful to the Genderist cause - you see it often in the piggybacking on stories about homophobia, despite the massive amount of overt homophobia with the trans movement.

Mermaids has here decided to play on the fears of children who believe themselves to be alone in their bodily or psychological discomfort, by telling these children that anything other than total acceptance of the narrative of Trans is abuse. And if your parents are abusers, the reasoning goes, you need to have an escape button because who knows what abusers might do if they see what you have been looking at.

The key here is that Mermaids have defined abuse to include things that aren't even remotely abuse, related specifically to the product they are pushing - Gender Identity. It's part of the system that parents must either unquestioningly support the movement, or they must be cast as the enemy.

That is why this website button is not the same as those on other specific abuse focused websites - because it is being used to manipulate a child into believing abuse is occuring when it is not, and is grooming the child into secrecy.

'That is why this website button is not the same as those on other specific abuse focused websites - because it is being used to manipulate a child into believing abuse is occuring when it is not, and is grooming the child into secrecy.'

Personally, if I believed that someone was genuinely grooming children I would report it to the police. I know they are very busy, especially at the moment but, I am quite sure if there was merit in the report they would look into it.

As I said, I can only think that her particular experience of having a trans child and seeing them develop into a happy young woman getting on with life drives her opinions and actions.

That she would want the minute number (incidence wise) of children that find themselves in a similar position to have the opportunity at the same level of happiness does not surprise me. I think to want people to be happy in themselves is quite a common human emotion.

2016 Juian Vigo for Feminist Current:

'When lobby groups like Mermaids dictate policy and discourse around gender identity, kids lose'
(extract)
"Justice Hayden writes that J’s mother caused “significant emotional harm” to her child and critiques the local authority social services staff responsible for the youngster’s welfare.

He goes on to detail the acts of a controlling mother towards her child, M’s personal diagnosis of J’s alleged gender dysphoria, and a system which failed this child. Together, these various failures demonstrate a pattern of abuse and a mother who, Hayden writes, “deprived [her son] of his fundamental right to exercise his autonomy in its most basic way.”

What the judgment shows is that reports made by the Local Authority’s Housing Department, J’s school, the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC), and Social Services gave M’s behaviour towards her child (including her approach to J’s “gender presentation”) a pass simply because she was receiving support from Mermaids, a UK-based charity that claims to support parents of children who identify as transgender. Observations like these show major conflicts of interest between Mermaids and the government agencies named in the judgement.

Susie Green, the CEO of Mermaids, began her trajectory into the transgender debate through personal investment. She took matters into her own hands regarding her son’s gender dysphoria, leaving the country for the USA, then Thailand, when the National Health Service (NHS) would not undertake the treatment she thought her child needed. Mermaids is entirely comprised of parents like Green, who have either a child who self-identifies as having gender dysphoria or have started seeking professional help for their child. Despite the fact that Mermaids is not a professional organization, it has managed to push its way into government policies such as the House of Commons Select Committee “Transgender Equality” report (within which Mermaids is referenced twenty times) and has successfully convinced local school systems and councils that its form of “support” is tantamount to professional ethos.

In short, we have governmental policies being decided via a support group that functions as a political lobby — a political lobby which justifies its authority because of government championing. (The NHS, for example, cites Mermaids as “a charity that helps children with gender identity issues and their families.”) More surreal is the fact that some of the Mermaids members regularly give lectures to nursing students and NHS staff. The fact that medical and legal documents are produced by basically taking the word of desperate, if not confused, parents equates to both a shocking oversight and the tail wagging the dog.

Make no mistake, Mermaids is not a body of psychologists or trained healthcare professionals — it is merely a group of parents who have a child they believe to be transgender. Unlike other professional organizations, Mermaids is just a support group and therefore not accountable to medical and psychological bodies or government institutions. Under the leadership of Green, Mermaids harbours vested interests in dictating political discourse around transgender identity." (continues)

www.feministcurrent.com/2016/10/26/lobby-groups-like-mermaids-dictate-policy-discourse-around-gender-identity-kids-lose/

As I said, I can only think that her particular experience of having a trans child and seeing them develop into a happy young woman getting on with life drives her opinions and actions.

That she would want the minute number (incidence wise) of children that find themselves in a similar position to have the opportunity at the same level of happiness does not surprise me. I think to want people to be happy in themselves is quite a common human emotion.

January 2020 Liv Bridges for Feminist Current:

'Detransitioners are living proof the practices surrounding ‘trans kids’ need be questioned
Detransitioners are living proof that the practices surrounding “trans youth” need be questioned, yet their experiences are too often ignored.'
(extract)
Then came the enthralling and emotional damning indictment of doctors’ negligence: the detransition panel.

It is worth noting the bravery that young women — all between the ages of 19 and 29 — exhibited as they recalled their most intimate surgeries and brutal insecurities. Later, on Twitter, Evans disclosed that, of the seven women on the panel, there were five mastectomies, two hysterectomies, two oophorectomies (the removal of ovaries), and 20 years of testosterone combined.

So, why have so many young women been compelled to undergo such brutal surgeries?

One detransitioner, who goes by the name “Satan Herself” on Twitter, said that transitioning was a way to evade lesbophobia and her “reality as a homosexual woman.” Living as a “transman” for five years, she had never even considered the possibility she harboured internalized homophobia, as she was so supportive of LGBT rights. Yet she knew no lesbians and was starved of representation of masculine women. She said she couldn’t envision growing up into an adult lesbian woman, and immersed herself in transgender theory, which seemed the ideal way to “fix herself.”

Another detransitioner, Ellie, said that, at 15 years old, she too couldn’t picture herself as a homosexual adult female, so began her lengthy four-year transition journey one year later, with a mastectomy.

Thomasin began identifying between “male and various non-binary identities” at 14 years old, only desisting from treatment in May. She said social media and the online world functioned as a kind of escape route, especially since she saw no lesbian positivity or representation online or in real life.

Nele, who identified as trans for two years, argued that people aren’t just “born transgender for a magical reason,” but that it is “put on you by society.” She claimed that the contemporary trans movement masquerades as progressive while “reinforcing gender stereotypes” — a position shared by Bell, who said accepting the concept of gender identity without criticism can legitimize “a form of caricatured gender stereotypes.” Bell feels the outcome of trans ideology is a “movement that actually acts against the support of lesbian and gay people.”

Many also explained that they had pre-existing body issues, some manifesting in life-threatening eating disorders, alongside gender dysphoria.

Despite almost dying from anorexia, “Satan Herself” said she never linked hating her female body to her eating disorder or gender dysphoria. She never connected the dots between her fear of living as a female and her fear of living at a normal weight, both of which caused her to be dismissive of her health.

“I often wonder how nobody realized that? No therapist I saw; no doctor I talked to about getting surgery; no one in my personal life,” she said to a tear-choked room. “I just wish someone would have been there to tell me not to get castrated at 21…

… Just what the hell are surgeons doing?” (continues)
www.feministcurrent.com/2020/01/09/detransitioners-are-living-proof-the-practices-surrounding-trans-kids-need-be-questioned/

Some excellent posts on this thread highlighting why certain lobby groups are so dangerous to children because of their lack of understanding of safeguarding and their insistence on alienating children from their parents and families.
Thank you all for exposing this so clearly.

Surely the safeguarding response to a child being abused at home is to encourage them to phone Childline or confide in an adult they trust?

www.childline.org.uk/info-advice/your-feelings/sexual-identity/transgender-identity/

I can see you are not a fan of Mermaids. I have an opposing opinion in that I think they offer a valuable support group to children and their families at a very difficult time. That doesn't appear to be a unusual opinion I hold.

Personally. I'm confident that as a frightened 14 year old lacking parental support, had I been able to make a choice between them and a group who actively promoted stickers to minimise the distress of children in a similar position, I'd likely have gone where i thought people were going to listen to me and take me seriously.

I understand that we are unlikely to agree. It's healthy in a democratic society.

Childline's resources about 'transgender identity' are informed by transactivists.

… 'Just what the hell are surgeons doing?” (continues)
www.feministcurrent.com/2020/01/09/detransitioners-are-living-proof-the-practices-surrounding-trans-kids-need-be-questioned/'

Practices always need to be questioned that is how progress is made. The voices of de-transitioners are hugely important in the development of assessment. Personally, I am just not overly comfortable with the idea that those practices that in the main have a positive outcome need to be stopped or legislated against based on those experiences. Doing nothing for the minute few (incidence wise) is not a neutral action.

I can see you are not a fan of Mermaids. I have an opposing opinion in that I think they offer a valuable support group to children and their families at a very difficult time. That doesn't appear to be a unusual opinion I hold.

The links provided question Mermaids ethical/Safeguarding failures come from medical professionals, Family Court judge & young women harmed by trans ideology/ medical affirmation interventions.

Mermaids is providing/informing 'training' to schools, NHS & social care.

December 2018 Janice Turner for The Times:

Trans ideologists are spreading cod science
Those who defend controversial charity’s right to a £500,000 lottery grant should really listen to what it is preaching

(extract)
Are you a Princess Barbie jelly-baby who likes frilly dresses, high heels and takes ages to get ready? Or a GI Joe jelly-baby who wears boots and functional clothing? Did you know that your preference for pink sparkles or muddy sports isn’t down to societal expectations of boys and girls. No, it’s written in your chromosomes. And that’s science.

Well, science according to Mermaids, the charity for trans children, in a presentation understood to be given to thousands of teachers, health workers, police and politicians, and part-funded by the Department for Education.

I listened to a recording of this bizarre 90-minute training lecture and wish others could too. Particularly those who pride themselves on rationality and evidence-based thinking: atheists, fans of Richard Dawkins and Ben Goldacre’s Bad Science; those incensed by climate change deniers on TV or creationists in schools; the same people who are tweeting #istandwithmermaids because the Big Lottery Fund is reviewing, in the light of an outcry, its decision to award them a £500,000 grant.

On tape the Mermaids trainer tells us that humans don’t come in two sexes, male and female, sperm and ovum: “Most people still think that way,” she says airily. “But what we know now, thanks to advances in science, is that the human race has up to 42 different sets of chromosomes.”

Biological sex is on a spectrum, she says, like skin tone and (seriously) bra size. A person’s “gender identity jelly baby” has nothing to do with how we are raised: it is inside you at birth. You know you are a man because you walk like a man and like “manly” things. A listener questions why this lecture is based upon stereotypes and is told “you’re going too clever”.(continues)
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-ideologists-are-spreading-cod-science-m8n0pdbq3

transcript of the training by mumsnet collective available here:

docs.google.com/document/d/1NDOMlo2aEpBl2ySfKdEWCb1H94tZciKiqUffjH1ku0Y/edit?usp=sharing

docs.google.com/document/d/1aeFV0T6j4PXvm1xZBS_50oSJYV-_gO8YMoFjKjNA_9Y/edit?usp=sharing

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3454658-recording-of-mermaids-training