Controversial networks (considered by some to be "cults") mumsnet readers need to be aware of

[hoodathunkit]

This is going to be a very long thread and posting it is very overdue

The word "cult" is quite loaded and obviously one person's religious movement or psychotherapy / life coaching / wellness organisation is another person's cult.

Sometimes cultic dynamics arise in family and extended family groups also, so the word "cult" can be a loaded and problematic one.

There is a lot I need to share here, this is made more urgent by the fact that, while I train hard and am fairly healthy, I do have underlying health problems that mean there is a chance I may not survive the comming storm.

I am somewhat dyslexic and have always struggled with spelling. I am pushed for time and do not trust spelling / grammar apps on my computer so I hope readers will forgive my occasional typos, spelling mistakes and grammatical errors.

I will be doing this in small, digestible posts for ease of reading.

I would say "enjoy!" but what I am about to share is not remotely enjoyable. This is going to be a thread of horrifying, dark, twisty rabbit holes with many network links to material other posters here have shared.

More to follow shortly

Good morning Hooda
How did you sleep? Are you still getting up early to go to the supermarket?

I just watched the first 3 videos you posted, I thought first it was just a TV show, I didn't realise it was actually about them in the house so hadn't watched it at first.
The women and one in particular seemed very vulnerable, I suppose that's the type of person who is drawn to her.
The spanking of the woman in the 3rd episode was very odd and I'm not sure that there isn't a sexual element to it.
I'm even more surprised now that this person is working as family and marriage therapist.
From her Linkedin it says she also worked as a certified DV counselor from 2011-2012, for someone who used vulnerable women for her own fantasy life and goals I find this really shocking.

I'd like to find out more about to links to right wing organisations, so far is just the magazines etc that were found when the landlords broke in?

And sorry about your situation, it's hard when some people are not taking it seriously.
I'm in Ireland and they have advised people not to bring children to visit older people, my friend works in a nursing home and they haven't allowed children to visit for the last two weeks.Schools, creches and colleges are also closed but now the toy stores are full of children and very busy!

Good morning! :)

I am OK so far.

Arrived at the supermarket at 4am a coule of days ago but it was closed so that the staff could restock.

When I turned up at 6am when it opened the older people and disabled were soon joined by lots of younger, stronger people with pointy elbows. I grabbed a few essentials and left in a hurry.

That's it for me re shopping for now on. I have enough food for maybe 2 weeks and will only go outside now to exercise at a distance from others.

I live in a small bedsit in sheltered housing and have had to get rid of a lot of personal items to make space for food.

I also have a lot of art materials and one of the things I will be doing on lockdown is making art. I am making art about the subjects that interest me, covercive control / brainwashing / the manipulation of consent, crime, cults, the exploitaiton of the vulnerable and family dysfunction and abuse.

Before I had to move from the big city I exhibited at a couple of top art events. Since i moved I have been unable to make art due to space constraints. There is a communal activities room for tenants here but it is contminated by smoke drift, sometimes deliberately by bullies, so I have not been able to use it.

I have to check my external hard drives for screenshots and other data but will be posting later today or tomorrow

Stay safe everyone and be good to each other :)

I'm in Ireland and they have advised people not to bring children to visit older people, my friend works in a nursing home and they haven't allowed children to visit for the last two weeks.Schools, creches and colleges are also closed but now the toy stores are full of children and very busy!

I am very relieved that the novel coronavirus seems to be leaving most children and young adults unscathed and taking only the older people. I think that most older people would not want it any other way round, as happened with the Spanish flu in 1918.

I am extremely distressed by the casual attitude of some parents, older children and young adults towards social distancing.

People of all ages are behaving very badly and not taking care of others in the community. It is not just parents and children of course. Some of the elderly people where I live are behaving extremely irresponsibly.

But I really wish that people would take the risks towards older people seriously and tell their children to keep their distance from older people in the street, to not take their children to the supermarket or other crowded places, especially if they are coughing and to just extend a bit of kindness and consideration.

Those of us who have been practicing social distancing for some time, washing our hands like crazy and taking great care with the health of ourselves and others are being completely undermined by the activities of selfish, irgnorant people.

Apologies, I just needed to rant.

Normal service will be resumed soon :)

Those of us who have been practicing social distancing for some time, washing our hands like crazy and taking great care with the health of ourselves and others are being completely undermined by the activities of selfish, irgnorant people.

I know it's disheartening and frustrating isn't it.

Normal service will be resumed soon

[smile} I'll be here!

Just popping in to say hello and let people know I'm OK so far

I have had an extremely stressful couple of days and am still trying to deep clean and declutter my bedsit so I can live shut in for a while

I will be self isolating, except for occasional outings at night, not because I am sick, so far, thank goodness I have no symptoms, but because my neighbours include some extremely selfish and irresponsible people who have very low consideration for others or who are simply in complete denial about the extremely serious nature of this situation.

The situation with the communal laundry is potentially catastrophic for all tenants here and was a health risk prior to the arrival of the virus. I am extremely concerned about how to keep my clothes, towelling and bedding clean safely.

I am considering wearing a swimming costume in the day and hand washing it so i do not have to use the laundry. Even then I have sheets and towels that need to be laundered on a hot wash and given I live in a small bedsit with no space to dry clothes I don't know what I am going to do.

I could endure using unwashed clothes and towelling but this generates another, albeit different health risk.

I bought lots of face cloths and am thinking of using them one at a time and hand washing them and putting ghem up to dry.

If I wear a swimming costume it means I will have less to wash, but I could get cold. I can do indoor exercise but this means I will need more food, which could present problems.

I am trying hard to stay strong but am feeling quite anxious. Just trying to think strategically about how best to get through this.

My asthma is fairly well controlled with meds but I have AF which is well controlled with meds and could cause problems if I get sick.

Due to smoke drift where I live my lungs have felt like they were burning and hurting for about 6 weeks. I suffer terribly from allergies and have a genetic condition that predisposes me to COPD, although I do not have COPD. The burning lung thing is somethingI get here because of the smoke drift from neighbours.

It is just possible that I have experienced a very mild episode of the virus. It is also posssible that my health conditions mean that it will hit me hard.

I have to get back to prepping my bedsit, but will post soon, probably tonight. I mean to post last night but was just exhausted after a stressful day

The washing machine situation sounds really tough.

Towels and bed sheets dry great when hung up over a door, if you have some hangers you could fit more over the door or hang towels of the back of a chair to dry.
Instead of a swimming costume,although easy to wash and dry could be uncomfortable worn all day,do you have leggins which should dry quickly hung over a door too.

Please don't feel any pressure to update or post here do it when you have time and want to

There are mini manual washing machines which would clean sheets, maybe towels. Or if not cotton towel, they will clean microfibre towels and they would dry faster too.

If you had the money to invest in one.
www.amazon.co.uk/Display4top-Portable-Washing-3-2KG%EF%BC%8C100-GUARANTEE/dp/B0747P1W7V/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?keywords=manual+laundry+machine&sprefix=mannual+laun&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1584732302&sr=8-2

Hoodathunkit, I am sorry to hear that you are living in such constrained circumstances.
I wish you well as the C-19 drama unfolds.
I have followed your posts with interest. I am an escapee from a ‘cult’ myself and appreciate your efforts to elaborate the interconnectedness of it all.

Thanks for all the kind posts

I visited the supermarket late last night when it is usually very quiet to buy some cheap towels to help me avoid the laundry for a couple of weeks.

While it wasn't exactly busy, largely due to stripped empty shelves, it was busier than usual and some of the staff and customers were very stressed and seemed furious when I tried to make a big space between me and them. They seemes to think that me trying to do social distancing was being ridiculous.

I left very quickly feeling regretful and scared.

The place where I live now has a culture of excessive respect for personal freedoms. Personal freedoms are important but any good thing, taken to extremes, risks becoming a bad thing.

I think also, because it is quite a small place where everyone knows one another that I am perceived as an outsider who is thus the target of hostility. It is very pro-brexit here , with a signficant older population, mostly very right wing.

I feel very concerned about how the hostility to perceived outsiders here could spill over to anyone considered to be an outsider when things get tough, which they inevitably will.

The Kurdish, Polish and other minority people here have been experiencing an increase in hostility due to brexit. A Muslim woman I chat to told me recently that she has a lovely next door neighbour, but I feel very concerned for the welfare of vulnerable minorities here, especially when some long time locals will be turned away from ICUs.

They are already in a rage about outsiders getting social housing and benefits. It is not uncommon to hear people here opine that people on benefits should be forced to work. The virus will escalate these grievances.

Anyway, I digress

Another stressful couple of days, I wont go into details.

I woke up early and started to put together a post here and ended up going down several rabbit holes. I have discovered some intersting things re the Aristsians,

I have a ton of unposted posts re various issues here and what I would like to do, if people don't mind, is to do a bit of aposting frenzy where I just get the info out here.

I am really worried about how pushed for time I am and I have so much to share and I very easily get distracted when I find rabbit holes.

Right now my eyes are a bit sore and I've had a long, fairly stressful day and I need to exercise

My plan is to post a lot of the stuff I discovered today tomorrow morning. As I'm now only going out to exercise I will have a bit more time

I'm just throwing this in to the pot.
I'm sure it was here I read it. Bit cant remember the details.
Wasnt there a prominent female activist of some stripe running Jack the Ripper tours or something like that?
Just as JtR was mentioned upthread
May well be nothing but someone on here might know more

I hope you keep well Hoodathunkit

Wasnt there a prominent female activist of some stripe running Jack the Ripper tours or something like that?

I remember that - I think I read it on here.

Yes, Jack The ripper museum was originally touted as a museum for women's history.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_the_Ripper_Museum

Linda Riley was a director of said museum

freedomnews.org.uk/a-person-related-to-the-ripper-museum-awarded-labour-party-lgbtq-lead-advisor-post/

Thread here - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3442065-Divas-Linda-Riley-in-Private-Eye

I am feeling much better today, largely because it is warm and sunny here and even though I have not gone outside (I will venture into the small private garden for tenants here if the smokers aren't out in force) the sun has left me feeling inspired to do more deep cleaning.

I am pleased that posters have noticed the Jack the Ripper theme. I have no idea about how, if at all it is linked to the strange cult I am sharing information about here.

Even if connections are not immediately apparent I think it is useful to notice them and to be curious about them. File that connection in the filing cabinet in our collective minds and hopefully if other connections become apparent it is more likely that someone will notice it and maybe find a connection re lineage or some other connection.

There are so many different cults and toxic / dysfunctional groups out there and the arrival of the Internet has seen them thrive. One of the things I find interesting about Aristasia and its related entities is the combination of low tech and vintage pre-1960s tech with enthusiastic use of the Internet.

Because there are so many cults, so many different networks with overlapping liminal areas and nodes, it is impossible for one person to keep track of what is going on. Also I have a particular personal history and life experience that means that I have had a lot of RL experience on the peripheries of these groups that give me some unique insights.

However, like any subject, the greater one's knowledge base about an issue, the greater the realisation that there is a lot left unknown.

There are exceptions but it is my experience that generally people who believe that they are experts on cults and brainwashing and are confident that they are immune to brainwashing are the very people likely to be most at risk and who actually know the least.

I appreciate that there are lots of readers out there with even more experiences and knowledge than me who may have some unique and valuable insights into cults and I would appreciate them sharing information if they feel able to do so.

One of the defining features of cults is that they target people when they are at their most vulnerable. Another is that there is a significant liminal category consisting of people who are both victims and perpetrators.

These elements are also shared criminal netoworks involved in county lines.

For this reason I am going to be extremely careful about exposing private details about people in cults. For example, re Aristasia, I think there is more than enough information to demonstrate that there are cultic and dysfunctional dynamics occuring within this group.

I am gender critical, however I do not wish to dox or bully any trans person or expose their personal details. Obviously if there is mainstream media reporting on for example convictions for violent crime and a link to far right group (as we have here) I will expose it.

I have discovered some more information about "Sister Angelina" (the TIM in Aristasia). I do not know this person's real name and I would request that other posters are mindful about not exposing anyone's private details unless they are already in the public domain and there is a safeguarding reason to do so.

We have sufficient information to express concern and highlight safeguarding concerns about "Ms Martindale". At this point I do not know whether Sister Angelina is a victim, a perpetrator or both.

I will post more later today, I just wanted to thank people again for the very kind posts. I have been gaslighted to an appalling extent over the years and the process escalated fairly recently to the extent that it has been very hard to bear.

It means the world to me to have some support here.

Thanks again and I'll post again later today when I have cleaned the cupboard under the sink :)

hoodathunkit Your posts here are always well-researched and relevant. I am very suspicious of the early attempts in this thread to discredit you and the information you have been sharing.

It is very tedious archiving Mumsnet threads because the default "page length" when archiving is, IIRC, 25 posts per page. If anyone reading has time to help out by archiving this thread and posting the links that would be wonderful (I have just run out of time or I would do it!)

Similarly, there are Mumsnetters who till the infamous Antipodean Agriculture (are we banned from naming that site?? I only ever see it referred to obliquely?) who might pass this thread on . . .

I was struck by this comment you made Hoodathunkit:

"One of the central issues around the cults that I study is that their MO is veiled in a strange theatrical camouflage with a Carry On films flavour.

In this instance the camouflage involves Miss Whiplash / St Trinnians style theatrics and other elements that, should a victim attempt to disclose abuse, is likely to result in them being gaslighted by well meaning people with an elevated opinion of their ability to discern mad from not mad.

Hopefully this will be a lesson so that readers will pay attention should a traumatised person attempt to describe something that has traumatised them but that appears superficially ridiculous and even comedic,"

It made me think straightaway of:

• Drag Queen Story Time
• Adult Babies

I have had friends who were caught up for decades in some well-known cults as well as some "one man house party" affairs that robbed them of their careers, earnings and sanity. Some have never made it back into the real world.

The cults you have revealed here are unlike anything I have ever heard of before. I agree that there is much to learn from them in general about cults, how they operate, who they target and how they lure and entrap people - as well as the disturbing parallels with some current phenomena.

The Moonies tried to recruit me in the 1970's and I had a great time eating all their food (they look for hungry people, amongst others!). I spent months feeding myself at their tables and got a good insight into how they operate within different demographics, eg. wholesome stews and singarounds for students, waifs and strays; Mozart Evenings for the Hampstead Set.

I hope you are keeping well. I don't know where you are in the world, but is this any help to you?

covidmutualaid.org

Thanks so much for the lovely postand flowers MoleSpokes, I would like to respond at length but am a little exhausted

I have been archiving from a number of rabbit holes until my eyes hurt

Need a rest, but would like to provide a collection of archived magazines, published by the Aristasia cult, to keep interested readers occupied until my eyes have recovered sufficiently for me to post again

Please note :

These files are not archived in order of date issued, this was one hoop too many for me to jump through

these are large files and some may take a while to load, all via the wayback machine

Enjoy! (if that's the right word, probably not but YKWIM)

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I am someone who harvests and stockpiles ephemera. One of the things that has been difficult for me recently is lack of space. Any reader with a similar instinct towards collecting information will appreciate these kinds of problems.

These digitally archived copies of early Aristasian magazines will be of interest to readers and are very satisfying to those who, like me, have an unquenchable thirst for ephemera and data generally.

I have not had time to read these, my eyes can’t take it right now, but just seeing the illustrations is exciting to me.

I’ll be back later, there is so much more to report :)

I just wanted to post to let everyone know that, so far I am OK

I may risk going into the laudry tomorrow, I will just wear gloves and wash everything on a hot temperature.

I have been washing by hand for a couple of days but it is not really sustainable for 2 weeks.

I had a wonderful walk yesterday, met some stangers and, at a very safe distance of 3 meters or so, chatted to them and felt not so isolated.

Strangely it is easier to talk to people when you have to stand a long way apart. The people I chatted to yeserday were elderly and vulnerable and anxious about being on their own having recently moved to the area and not knowing many people. I will see them again today and maybe swap numbers so I can get food for them, or organise someone else to do it, if they need it. I think that their many worry was loneliness and general anxiety about the virus rather than food and that said that our chat was a boost for morale, which is great. It was a boost for my morale too :)

I stayed in my flat for a couple of days due to sheer terror as I have a neighbour who is coughing convulsively but going out and about as if everything is fine. I was scared of using the lift or the corridor. I am now using the corridor and just not touching handles. Thankfully she stayed in all day yesterday and hopefully will today too.

Today I am going to go out and get some sun. I may even try to sit in the communal garden here for a while. I need to de-stress by noticing little things in nature, the flowers and the birds. It doesn't take much to lift my spirits and I am grateful to have access to such things during these difficult times. If I stay indoors all day on the computer and only go outside when the shadows are long and it is gertting cold I am likely to experience depression, as I know from experience.

Many people are in much worse situations than me and I am grateful for the things I do have.

Re Aristasia et al

I am going to create a timeline of how Aristasia and associated entities have evolved over time. This is partly to examine the morphing of the network but mostly to use it as a way of illustrating how many similar networks use theatrical skills to disguise their activities and create "alternative realities".

For the purposes of establishing a timeline I am going to include the videos about the “Screamers” and the Atlantis commune as if they were either connected or part of the same network. This is a provisional inclusion subject to possible change at some later point.

The reasons I am including both groups is as follows:

They lived in the same premises, one group immediately after another. This can happen with cults that shape shift, the same or an offshoot entity resides in a location occupied by a former manifestation of the group. Sleight of hand and theatrics are used to make it appear that the residents have changed when they are either the same or a connected group. I am uncertain as to what happened here so am just covering all my bases.

Another poster believes that Miss Martindale is in fact Snowy James, the sister of Jenny James the spokeswoman for the Screamers household at the time of the videos. I do not know if this is correct but suggest that we explore this possibility. Fortunately the early videos show clear images of Snowy James so this should not be difficult to do.

Both households appear to live a fairly luddite lifestyle, involving keeping livestock and living off the land. It may even be that they keep the same animals that can be identified via careful scrutiny of the videos, something I have not had to time do yet. Help re this would be appreciated.

They share an identifying feature. Atlantis. The Screamers’ commune was called Atlantis House. Aristasia promotes historical narratives involving Atlantis. This may be simply a coincidence however I think this is a lead worth following, especially as the myth of Atlantis was something passionately endorsed by Nazis and still endorsed by neo-Nazis, of which more later.

They share an interest in culty flavoured types of psychotherapy that appear to be at best dubious and at worst abusive to outsiders. One theme throughout the Aristasian entities’ narratives is that of providing personal development through immersion in a highly controlled school type environment in which corporal punishment is perceived to be therapeutic.

Both groups allegedly had connections to extremist political groups / paramilitary groups. We need to further research the links of the Aristasians to the far right (I am on the case), however Jenny James’ son was murdered by the FARC when her commune moved to Columbia. FARC are not a group that I know a lot about. They have their origins as an anti-corruption focussed communist group, however they appear to be an extremely controversial paramilitary organisation portrayed in some quarters as involved in various serious criminal enterprises. It is always the case that one person’s terrorist is another person’s freedom fighter. I just do not have the resources to research FARC at this point, however I find the connections of the Screamers and and Aristasians to controversial extremist groups to be worth noticing.

There are so many posts here I want to respond to, however there are limited sunny days and I need to use them to get outside and exercise and also to clean my flat, which still requires further work, even though it looks the cleanest it has ever been.

Stay safe everyone, I'll post again soon :)

Hope you’re ok hooda.

I'm fine, well as fine as can be under difficult circumstances. Thanks for asking :)

Please accept my sincere apologies for not posting before, I have had some real life challenges of epic proportions to deal with, including loss of certain essential services. It never rains it pours eh?

Currently deep cleaning my flat while I wait for the engineer to turn up. Feeling extremely grateful and fortunate to have acces to an enginner under the current situation

Will post again soon.

For the record, if I become ill I will post here, even if briefly so please don't worry if you dont hear from me for a day or two, it will be because of real life challenges and not because I have become unwell.

Take care and stay safe everyone and have some flowers

Ooh just checked in - glad to see you are doing grand

Hi Hoodathunkit,

I hope your circumstances improve.

I have looked at quite a few of The Coming Age and Artemis you posted above. It is extraordinary the way they both fetishise femininity and infantilise women, and are very against women's liberation.

Sister Angelina appears to feature in most issues of The Coming Age. Is this the same (trans) Sister Angelina from the Donegal community?

I also came across a more contemporary website devoted to the Mother God / Lux Madriana / Filianic Scripture /Feminine Spirituality. There were quite recent comments discussing the two 'feminine' genders and a fair bit of 'transwomen and women' commentary as well.

Weird stuff... worrying

maisappho.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/women-born-women-dianic-wicca-and-transphobia/