8 year old boy wants to change with the girls

[FairytaleofBykerGrove]

I’ve been informed that a boy in my daughters class ‘feels like a girl’. He’s been wearing dresses to school for a while (fine) and now wants to change with the girls for swimming. Apparently the children will all accept it no problem and they’d like the parents to do the same. He will be under a poncho towel so we don’t have to worry about his privacy(?) I am really very unhappy with this. Which is why I’m up at 3 in the morning. The other parents I’ve spoken to don’t seem to care either way. I can’t understand it at all. Do you have any advice for me?

If it was unisex changing and had been until this age, then it would be just about OK to continue with unisex at this age (though rigHt is generally the age when boys and girls are separated because puberty commonly begins at nine). However, by letting a single boy into the girls at this age we are teaching girls that they should say yes if a boy wants to change in with them and that sex is not important. I think there is a positive obligation on grown ups and the school to actively teach appropriate boundaries including (a) that girls and boys have a right to privacy from the opposite sex when changing and (b) it is inappropriate to seek to change with the opposite sex whatever the reason that you may to.

*eight

Will the school also support the girls who feel that their dignity had been assaulted? The ones who feel sick on their tummies because there is a naked boy in there with them? When they feel that they can’t change under a poncho because it ‘wouldn’t be kind’ to the boy?

Either sex segregation is important or it isn't.

They should either enforce proper segregation or make all the children change together. Anyone who feels uncomfortable should wear ponchos. See how the parents react when suddenly all the distressed children insist on buying ponchos! That will a true reflection of how comfortable the kids (on both sides) feel about it!

The right of one child to be in a mainstream learning environment is prioritised over the rights of 30 to be in an environment primed for learning

If you are talking SEN here then there are probably parents behind the SEN child desperate to get support and possibly a specialist placement. Thousands of parents are well aware of the problems their unsupported child cause to the rest of the class and spend thousands and thousands of pounds getting private reports and taking obstructive councils to court, repeatedly, in order to access their child’s right to support. If you read Ofsted reports of council SEND departments they are almost all universally damning. Here are the truly vulnerable children for whom inclusion needs actual work and money, not just rainbow stickers.

R4 noooowwwwwww!

I don’t know when it happened but ‘be kind’ now seems to mean ‘be quiet’ At least it’s does if you are a girl or anyone who disagrees with popular opinion.

Girls aged 8 are legally entitled to the safety, dignity and privacy of single sex accommodation for a reason. Whilst I am sure safety is unlikely to be an issue, privacy and dignity certainly is.

I bet some girls do feel uncomfortable but either haven’t been asked or don’t want to say. Aged 8 - girls are on the cusp of staring puberty - breasts, periods etc and so even if they don’t currently mind (which I doubt) they very well soon will. If the boy is established in the girls changing rooms it will be then the onus on the girls to voice their discomfort to remove him from their space. This is grossly unfair to the girls and an unacceptable dereliction of duty by the school. The school has to ensure the needs of one boy does not impact on the legal rights of others.

It is the schools responsibility to enhance, not erode the girls sense of self, boundaries and bodily autonomy.

I would definitely go to the school. Your responsibility is for your DD - no one else.

Surely the kindest thing to do would be to allow him to change under a poncho in the boys' changing rooms and teach the boys to be kind

This with bells on.

Why is it always girls that have to just accept it?

I was in the changing rooms the other day at my local pool and it has a limit of 8 and under for the opposite sex. I’d say he was over eight maybe 10 but obviously I don’t know if he was. He was in the showers with his mum yet in the changing area there were women that were completely naked getting dressed. As soon as he come though the women put a towel around themselves and retreated in to a cubical.

It’s annoying. Apparently because men can’t be trusted to not be perverts, violent or ‘mean’ we lose our space to males The very species were supposed to be protected from

aesop, to be fair there is an awful lot of incredibly poor behaviour which is tolerated from students without SEN because schools are unable or unwilling to exclude them.

You are right about the absolutely shocking lack of support or funding for students with SEN though.

It’s not your DD’s issue. The school shouldn’t force her to deal with it. If he was really a girl - then she wouldn’t be asked to be extra kind.

The boys should be asked to be extra kind and ensure he feels comfortable in the boys changing room.

That radio 4 section was very balanced!

I am shocked at this, OP. To me it beggars belief that the school would even consider this. We have mixed-sex changing facilities for a reason, which is so that girls and boys can have privacy. Eight year olds have a right to privacy just as much as we do as adults.

As for the PP who said the boy is "only eight", well, I don't know if they've noticed, but children get older. Will this boy still be changing with the girls at 9, 10 and 11?

I am simply trying to consider the feelings of all involved. And yet placing that of many of the girls far below that of one boy. And yes, all of thoise girls have been told to "be nice"

No matter your personal views, the transgender child is, statistically, at more risk than a large group of girls in a school. Receipts please! Stats, ONS stats, I have seen say precisely the opposite!

As for transwomen being women in dresses, that is their daily reality - if you take "dresses" to mean any form of stereotypical feminin attire. If recognising that is mean then there is no hope for the human race!

I am really not sure it is relevant how any of the girls feel (or indeed the boy) the grown ups in the room should be teaching appropriate boundaries, for for the future irrespective of how anyone feels now. Either the school thinks it is fine for changing to be unisex at this age of they do not. What the school are proposing violates boundaries and teachers girls not to have boundaries.

And of course they should also be teaching the boy appropriate boundaries as well.

This is ridiculous.

Say no, be the voice your daughter doesn’t have yet. Protect her boundaries.

Ask a few questions of the headteacher - why do we have separate changing at all?
Why is a third option of the boy in separate changing not on the table?
If you say yes to this boy, what about others that decide they want to change with the girls too? Saying yes surely sets a precedent. How many boys must girls change in front of?

gonzales27 That R4 item made my head spin! I have put in a complaint about the C word (and the repeat in the item promos). Grrrr.

@Lordfrontpaw ooh I must have missed that, I only caught the last few minutes but I thought the rugby guy was excellent. I'll listen again later.

The rugby player used it. And they repeated it on the promo! Nope you can keep saying it but it’s still offensive!

@TheHairyBodParents

Your post struck a chord with me. I was badly bullied from primary school onwards - I have vivid memories of being literally physically beaten up by two 'big boys', who would have been 10/11, but seemed old to the 5-year-old me - and I was picked on constantly by others for being shy and overweight.

I dreaded games. Having to undress to change was like torture. I would wake up in the morning and cry to myself because I knew what was awaiting me - and that was just having to get changed in front of other girls.

I honestly don't know what I'd have done had they announced a boy was going to change with us and we all had to shut up and 'be kind'. I'm in utter disbelief at the posters claiming it's 'just kids' and 'they don't even notice any difference'.

Please engage your brains and think about this. OP, I'm with you.

'No' - why are adults afraid of using this word?
Just 'No'.
It doesn't make one a bad person to use it.
Young girls need their own space to come to terms with their own changing bodies. Why are they being placed in this position?
I despair.

If the boy is established in the girls changing rooms it will be then the onus on the girls to voice their discomfort to remove him from their space. This is grossly unfair to the girls and an unacceptable dereliction of duty by the school. The school has to ensure the needs of one boy does not impact on the legal rights of others.

I can guarantee that if this is allowed, within a year some, many, or all the girls won't be happy, won;t want to go to school on those days, etc.
And it will be much, much, MUCH harder to get the boy out of the changing room once he has been admitted, much more embarrassing and hurtful to HIM. He'd have to go back to the boy's room with head hanging, and probably be a victim of teasing. We all know what boys are like. Better to deal with this issue now, before it gets out of hand. And it will.

If he needs a poncho, then all the girls need ponchos, too!

I agree with Willoman