8 year old boy wants to change with the girls

[FairytaleofBykerGrove]

I’ve been informed that a boy in my daughters class ‘feels like a girl’. He’s been wearing dresses to school for a while (fine) and now wants to change with the girls for swimming. Apparently the children will all accept it no problem and they’d like the parents to do the same. He will be under a poncho towel so we don’t have to worry about his privacy(?) I am really very unhappy with this. Which is why I’m up at 3 in the morning. The other parents I’ve spoken to don’t seem to care either way. I can’t understand it at all. Do you have any advice for me?

When is the cut off for a mum to take her child into the ladies changing rooms? Usually they is a family or group changing area. I never particularly liked older children in the changing rooms either to be honest. But these little boys don’t demand access to the womans areas because they think they are female.

Most little boys get to an age when they wouldn’t be caught dead in the woman’s changing areas.

Elsie - I and most people think the cut off age of 8 is completely appropriate. And if you find 10 yr old boy in the girls changing room you can ask management to have him removed. You won’t be called a bigot for doing so.

I don’t know anywhere where 9/10 year old boys are in the women’s changing rooms, plenty of people would bat an eyelid, and yes, I would object . The cut of is usually 8. Sometimes 6. My teen daughter doesn’t want to get changed in front of 11 year olds and neither do I. I have sons, both have swam competitively and neither has been in a women’s changing room at 8 or older. Admittedly some places have poor family and disabled provision but that needs to be addressed in a way that doesn’t depend of the girls having to strip off in front of boys.

In fact my DS2's classmate was being praised for being kind, and put next to a boy having issues (also lovely, but currently being assessed for autism, and DS2's classmate was being sat next to him all the time to help him with his work, to the detriment of her own, which she was worried about, but felt she couldn't say because her teacher was saying how good she was for helping the boy).

This point is so important, TreestumpsandTrampolines. It’s a classic example of female socialisation - the expectations placed on girls to be “service humans” for others (usually boys), at their own expense.

It will be exactly what’s at play for the girls here.

then they should all be in together Elsie. Why are they separating them at all? As an aside my own son has been changing alone in the men’s since was 8. For the respect of other women and girls.

No reply from school as yet. I expect the head is getting advice from TENI on how to proceed/respond.

I’m in Ireland too. Go legal on them. Scare them.

Ask them what I’ve outlined above. Also ask them if their insurers have been told.

“ XXSex

Well done for speaking up!! For what it’s worth you can ask for the Equality Impact Assessment which takes into account your child’s sex.

Also ask how they are satisfying the statuatory obligations under Section 42 of the Irish Human Rights Act where the students are the users.

Also ask for their risk assessment as required under their Child Safeguarding Obligations and ask for it to be forward planning for children in puberty.

I’d scare the shit out of them”

Very well done for speaking up, OP! ⭐️⭐️⭐️

I’d like to ask the awful dad why he doesn’t think girls are entitled to boundaries, why he as a man is advocating for them to lose their boundaries.

I haven’t replied to the dad. I doubt I’d change his mind and for my own nerve I need to be in touch with people who are supportive of the girls. Thanks for the links xxsex. I will certainly look into the legalities.

In fact my DS2's classmate was being praised for being kind, and put next to a boy having issues (also lovely, but currently being assessed for autism, and DS2's classmate was being sat next to him all the time to help him with his work, to the detriment of her own, which she was worried about, but felt she couldn't say because her teacher was saying how good she was for helping the boy)

This happened to my daughter. I told her the only thing I expected of her was to set a good example of working hard. I told the teacher in no uncertain terms that it was her job and not my daughters to manage the behaviour of the unruly boys and my daughter must not be told, or had the expectation, that she had any responsibility to do this. That lessened but did stop it and with a variety of other issues made me very glad when my daughter got a new teacher the next year.

So all those outraged at this also object to women bringing their 8 year old sons/grandsons etc into communal changing rooms as well then?

Well yes - at the gym the cut-off is 8, and I've seen plenty of younger boys, but no older ones when I've been there for swimming lessons.

DS1 doesn't like it (which is fair enough - there's no cubicles in the men's apparently, and they all wander around naked), so he wears his swimming suit under his clothes, and just brings his bundle of clothes poolside. After swimming he does the same in reverse and showers at home. If we go with DP, or once his brother is big enough to go with him I expect they'll move over to changing there as normal, but he feels vulnerable all alone, which is fair enough I think. It wouldn't be fair to all the girls in the women's change to have him there, even though there are a couple of cubicles, because it's not his space.

Following the rules is completely possible.

I told the teacher in no uncertain terms that it was her job and not my daughters to manage the behaviour of the unruly boys

This is exactly what this child's mum did too - and so she should feel confident to. We need to stand up for our kids.

Little boys in woman’s changing rooms won’t be expecting to come in when they are secondary school age though will they?

I haven’t replied to the dad. I doubt I’d change his mind and for my own nerve I need to be in touch with people who are supportive of the girls.

You’re right, of course. My comment was wishful thinking about what I (as a stranger) would like to say, rather than a suggestion that you should say that to him - I realise that as the (very brave!) parent involved here, you’ve got to keep the focus on addressing the school’s attitude.

Power to you 💐

I regularly see boys aged 8/9 in communal changing areas, it’s never been something I’ve been particularly comfortable with to be completely honest, but I understand the reasons for it and no one there seems to have an issue with it. It was just something that jumped out to me about this thread as I see outrage about privacy on here from many, yet not seen this level of outrage about boys brought into female changing rooms by their mums or grandmas. If people also disagree with that then fair enough, but I think it’s hypocritical to preach about privacy of girls getting changed, but say it’s okay for other boys of the same age to be there if their relatives take them.

The cut off age at my gym is no over 8s in the changing room of the opposite sex. There are family changing rooms provided.

There have been loads of threads about changing rooms.

No kids over 8 in changing rooms.of wrong sex. Any child who has difficulties enough that they cant dress themselves or understand enough or cope with changing would probably qualify to use the accessible rooms.

Incapability through general nonsense behaviour or helicopter parenting is down to the parents to sort them out. They manage at school so they can manage outside of school.

Abytbung else well that's the parents issue to solve in a way that dissnt teach them to be entitled or disrespectful or trample over boundaries.

And that all works both ways dads with dds and mums with dss

This isn’t a gym/swimming pool changing room though, it’s a school & the boy should be changing with the other boys.

Elsie - but no one on here is saying that 8yrs+ boys should be in women’s changing rooms. So I don’t understand why you are banging on about it.
If you want to start a separate discussion about it start a new thread

... boys brought into female changing rooms by their mums or grandmas..

...are likely to be much better behaved compared to, say, when at school and the teacher is otherwise engaged; my PE teachers over the years had their own changing room, is it different now?

Completely different scenarios.

Really Elsiebear90 - you're spouting "whataboutery". We are talking about girls being groomed into being silent about a boy demanding to undress with them and the messages that this leaves young girls with as they grow up and face all sorts of pressure from men to do what they want.

It doesn’t really matter if he is well behaved or not, he is a boy & should be changing with the other boys.

So impressed you have written to the school, very scary to put your head above the parapet and very brave. I hope they realise what a poor decision they made and reverse it.

It doesn’t really matter if he is well behaved or not, he is a boy & should be changing with the other boys

Well, quite. If you let Freddie change within the girls because he asked to and he’s well behaved and quite and small and gentle and young for his age, the what grounds do you have to say “no” to Jack, who is one of the oldest and approaching puberty and is bigger and is boisterous and doesn’t know when to stop?

You can just say “no gender confusion for you, you are September born, have a slapstick sense of humour, and your dad is six foot four”

Well...exactly — it’s a cliche but it absolutely is the whole ‚slippery slope‘ argument. You let one do it, you can’t then refuse the rest .

(Not that I agree with anyone doing it, to be clear)

I regularly see boys aged 8/9 in communal changing areas

Which is not ok. A NT 8 year old should be more than capable of dressing themselves. There is no way my ds would change with the girls and it pisses me off when women bring their over 8's into the ladies. When does it stop? 10? 12? 18? Bloody ridiculous.