8 year old boy wants to change with the girls

[FairytaleofBykerGrove]

I’ve been informed that a boy in my daughters class ‘feels like a girl’. He’s been wearing dresses to school for a while (fine) and now wants to change with the girls for swimming. Apparently the children will all accept it no problem and they’d like the parents to do the same. He will be under a poncho towel so we don’t have to worry about his privacy(?) I am really very unhappy with this. Which is why I’m up at 3 in the morning. The other parents I’ve spoken to don’t seem to care either way. I can’t understand it at all. Do you have any advice for me?

Are you going to respond to the idiot male, who said he is understanding? I’d be tempted to say. “I’m totally with you there on understanding of the child. I cannot advocate for a male bodied child to change in the room of their choosing whilst girls are expected to strip naked in the same room. As a parent, I have to advocate for the girls some of whom have hit puberty and may already be menstruating. This Everyone’s boundaries need respecting, not just those of one child.”

Mintjulia
Why couldn’t he have changed in a cubicle in the boys??

That Dad sounds like a right fecking eejit. Zero critical thinking skills. Best ignored I’d say, it’s not your job to educate him.

Lord
ED is Educate Together, it's non religious.

When I read people say ‘I’m absolutely ok’ I wonder about them to be honest. Naive or something else.

Fairy well done you for complaining.

I think the Dad who replied hasn't really thought it fully through. He's also a man who's not had to deal with periods and boobs. Or is minimizing it as they are only kids, privacy isn't important. I do wonder if he'd think differently if it was the other way around and a couple years older.
Girl in the Boys changing room around the age of 12.

I’d also be tempted to say ‘sorry but as a male you have zero understanding of what little girls feel - back off, little man, and let the women handle this...‘

He just needed time and a bit of support.

No. Not at the expense of our girls. Boys do not have a bloody right to undress with the girls. And whether he became masculine or not doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that he's male. What the heck is wrong with being a feminine boy? Are they somehow lesser? Not masculine enough to be with the 'real' boys? Give your head a wobble.

Boys do not have a bloody right to undress with the girls. (and vice versa) 👏

He shouldn't be allowed to do it. When he's a fully grown adult and has transitioned/had a sex change, then maybe it's a different story. Kids should not be being encouraged and other children (girls at school) should not be made to be uncomfortable on the whim if 1 person. Sorry, not sorry!

It’s like when you have a puppy and you let it sleep on the bed because - well you are being kind and it’s cuuuute. What harm can it do? There’s not harm...

When it’s a 14 stone monster and benches, farts and snores in the bed - and growls when to try to move (and attacks your partner), you begin to doubt your decision.

I think a lot of people don’t get the wider implications. They see a poor wee lad struggling and want to be kind. When I talked to my parents about the concerns I had of our high school (stonewall silver champion) and their gender neutral toilets - my mum expressed how sad it was for the poor individuals whose brain didn’t match their body. We’ve talked about how women’s rights are being crushed by feelings and she’s a bit more understanding now. But I wonder if that’s how A lot of people think.

Well done for standing up OP. I would do exactly the same.

The word bigot has lost all meaning through its reflexive over-use. And in fact, a bigot is someone who is intolerant of, and tries to close down any disagreement or alternative view with personal accusations and name-calling, usually.

The biggest bigots these days are the ones that continually use the word in place of actual debate.

We’ve talked about how women’s rights are being crushed by feelings and she’s a bit more understanding now. But I wonder if that’s how A lot of people think

Read an interview with the writer Marjorie Blackman yesterday. She was asked about what she thought of people 'identifying as black'. she wasn't too impresssed with that suggestion - saying that you had to live the life and walk the walk etc - so whilst you might like and appreciate black culture it did not make you black.

On the other hand she said she believed that "people could be born in the wrong body" - and that it was, therefore, effectively possible for a male to actually be a female.

The thing is...there are more differences between the sexes than there are between races.

Oh for goodness sake this is an 8 year old. The child is no threat to anybody. Move on.

So why do we have separate sex changing at all then? What age does it start to matter? Guidelines say from 8+

We need to move the conversation on from 'threat' and 'danger' - even though both valid....towards dignity, privacy and comfort

As it stands it would seem that women and girls have no automatic right to any of these - even in their own spaces.

I just want to add my voice to those saying it is unfair that the boy's feelings are seemingly more important than those of the girls.

The poncho is no solution at all. It symbolises everything that is wrong with the whole scenario. He needs a poncho to preserve his dignity. The girls do not need ponchos to preserve theirs. He can look at the girls getting changed and they cannot look at him. They should all wear ponchos, just to highlight how utterly ridiculous this 'solution' is.

I feel for the little boy, who is trying to find where he fits in, but this is not the answer. I don't have daughters, but I know my sons would be very uncomfortable if a girl was allowed to get changed with them. My eldest was quite upset when, in his school, the girls got to change for PE in the toilets and the boys changed in the classroom. He said the girls would come and look through the door at the boys getting changed and, while some of the boys thought nothing of it and just laughed, there were others who felt unhappy. Thankfully, it only happened a couple of times before common sense prevailed and they were all sent to their respective toilets.

Children are very much aware of the differences between their bodies and should not be put in situations where they feel railroaded into accepting things out of a misplaced sense of being kind to others at the expense of their own feelings.

My daughter is in an Educate Together school too, so you are not alone in questioning their policy on this.

Educate Together schools work hard to instil a sense of equality and justice in students

I'd turn that on its head, Equality, means All the Children are entitled to as much privacy and dignity as each other.
The boy in the girls is reducing their equality and privacy.
So maybe full Equality, equal privacy and dignity means ALL the children changing in one room under a poncho! And watch a stooshie unfold at that suggestion.

As it stands it would seem that women and girls have no automatic right to any of these - even in their own spaces.

I'm afraid I'd change that to: women and girls have no automatic equal right to any of these, or to their own spaces. Everything that all women and girls may have must be taken from what's left over after the more important needs of any male has been met.

Fuck. That.

OP here's another argument for you.

When I was in school boys and girls were separated at primary school for "puberty" education. I assume they still do. You know what I mean female development hygiene, periods, etc.

Never asked but I suspect boys recieved similar, shaving, washing etc.

Are the school going to insist he sits in with the girls on that too?
Honestly somebody needs to make a stand at some point he is a boy who can wear what he likes but he is a boy with a Male body.

Btw girls swim wear can be incredibly skimpy. I can't imagine a boy actually being fully covered in it, unless altered.

When those girls grow up they will ask their parents why they didn’t protest.

^^this. DM refuses to acknowledge what happened to me, and that she not only played a part in my discomfort, but failed to stop the situation occurring after I had told her that the other children would laugh and touch me.

Out of curiosity, Mintjulia, did you read my post? How would you square and explain your views if confronted by 9 year old HairyBod?

OP, you are a braver woman than I am, and I salute you in honour of 2020's IWD.

Sorry hairybod :(

Would t bother me at 8 -at that age they can use the girls changing in the leisure centre - once they get to secondary it's a different matter though

In that case presumably you're in favour of full mixed sex changing?