In court tomorrow

[BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted]

Hayden versus Associated Newspapers.

The Judge? Go on guess. Mr Justice Julian Knowles.

Remember him? I couldn’t be happier.

This is according to contacts at the NZ fruit farm

FT had several different names, iirc.

Do we know what the journalist felt was fraudulent about the Stat Dec?

The person in question publicly said how long/short the GRC process was in own case and even named a doctor that was great at providing a speedy service.

I believe there was some question about the period of time spent "living as a woman"?

If, hypothetically, someone had to provide a statutory declaration to a panel that said, for example, “I confirm and declare that I have been living as a woman for two years”, and then submits that statutory declaration in support of a court application, but evidence later came to light that the person concerned had, during that two year period, still been using their male identity to enter into contracts to provide a service, then the courts might consider that to be perjury.

Apparently

but evidence later came to light that the person concerned had, during that two year period, still been using their male identity to enter into contracts to provide a service, then the courts might consider that to be perjury.

Honestly, I'm sitting here, and my first reaction was well that makes a mockery of the whole thing. That's not what it was designed to do.

But obviously, the entire issue makes a mockery of reality. On the most fundamental level.

It's an absolute nonsense that we're sitting here thinking we can prevent a male born individual from targeting women, on the basis that they conducted some of their business in a male name and not a female name.

And people are devoting time, resources, money to this absolute fantasy of nothingness.

If, hypothetically, someone had to provide a statutory declaration to a panel that said, for example, “I confirm and declare that I have been living as a woman for two years”

Maybe Stephanie Hayden will cause this impossibility for people born male to be examined in court?

This is a problem with GRA in general.
What does living as acquired sex mean?
Speaking generally. One could change medical records M>F and driving licence, just put new name on gas and leccy bills , send these with letters of diagnosis as evidence to GR panel, yet leave everything else in previous name and/or sex.
There is of course no policing of dress sense or hairstyle, what you introduce yourself as and no way of checking one's name on every single thing are involved in.

Getting a GRC is easy if English is first language, educated and not intimidated by authority.
It is very, very, very easy compared to applying for passport, residency or state benefits. It's an absolute piece of cake compared to applying for PIP.

Thanks for the clarification, ItsAllGoing.
I know SH as one other set of initials but wasn't aware of FT.

Just skimming the thread, am I right in thinking there's no tweeting, the hearing is still going on now, judge refused to recuse and nothing from the fragrant Ms Hayden yet?

My understanding is there has been no record of a GRC being rescinded by the panel.

The panel also, allegedly, are not keen to investigate any concerns regarding falsely obtained GRC's.

My understanding is there has been no record of a GRC being rescinded by the panel.

I think if one was, it would bring new meaning to the expression "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned".

And people are devoting time, resources, money to this absolute fantasy of nothingness.

Yes, it's awful when there are real problems in the world. I suspect people will be a lot less tolerant of this sort of time wasting if biological reality asserts itself in the form of coronavirus.

This is so twisted, perhaps SH is actually a WOMAN and has created this whole saga to blow the GRA out of the water......they are doing a better job than anyone else at the mo to make the point that GRA must be repealed......no more GRCs, they are helping our cause

This is a problem with GRA in general.
What does living as acquired sex mean?

Exactly.
Newuser123123 wrote upthread of the amazing barrister & co-founder of Filia, Julian Norman, "I was in the law workshop with Julian at wpuk conference and I was blown away by her!"
Most people (rightly IMO) are.
Ive only ever seen Julian wearing trousers, she has short hair & is a woman.

Yesterday I read a concerning report about the content of mass information days for prospective patients, including young people, referred to gender clinics.
Clinicians present giving guidance included James Barrett.
Ht DuLang

It was posted a year ago on Reddit 'Transgender UK
r/transgenderUK' board 16.3k members
'Notes from the Charing Cross GIC Information Day'
(extract)
"Recently I attended an information session at Charing Cross GIC. My actual GIC is the Tavistock and Portman but it seems that many small GICs collected their patients together to give them an information day prior to their first assessment. I'm not sure if this has been usual practice in the past but the session was extremely useful to me so I thought I would share what they spoke about here.

Disclaimer: What I write here is as accurate as the notes I managed to take and is the information given by Charing Cross GIC. (continues)

The next section was about myths and legends of Charing Cross GIC, it is quite extensive, but very useful.

There is no appropriate clothing

It was made clear that you are not expected to arrive at the GIC at any point wearing the typical clothing of your gender. You do not need to arrive in a dress or a suit. You can present in any way that is legal (so no nudity).

You do not have to be living in role

Before seeing the GIC you do not need to have assumed the social gender role you wish to be already. A bit counter intuitive but still, important to know. Essentially they will see you at any stage of your trans experience from 'I'm confused and questioning' to 'I've completely transitioned'.

Name changing

The main point about name changing was that it's a very good idea to change your legal name as soon as possible, not for any specific reason other than the fact that people take 'legal' things seriously and if you say your legal name is XYZ people are more likely to take you seriously. Name change can be done by deed poll and all you need is two people over the age of 18 to witness you actually writing the signature. That's it. They can be any people over the age of 18, literally anyone.

There were some additional comments about name changing which I found to be interesting but not really meaningful. The presenter said that you should choose a name that sounds like it would describe the gender you want to present as, so that people are not confused. (continues)

www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/85masl/notes_from_the_charing_cross_gic_information_day/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

Obviously many people have first names which might be more associated with the opposite sex:
Glen Close actress
Lindsay Hoyle Speaker
Lindsay Buckingham singer songwriter
Shirley Crabtree 'Big Daddy' wrestler
Evelyn Waugh novelist
Julian Norman barrister
Julian Vigo journalist etc etc

Placemarking. Interesting thread.

Any photos/documents/videos that prove SH had not completely relinquished SH’s pretransition identity (identities?) by 8th April 2016 would theoretically invalidate SH’s GRC.

Or at least it would, if anyone had actually designed a mechanism to deal with fraudulent GRC applications after they had been granted. Seems like Whittle and Burns missed that bit out of their 2004 GRA masterpiece, oversight or on purpose? Who knows. I think Whittle is giving a talk in MCR soon though, along with Tara thingy from TELI.
We could pop along and ask?

🤡

If the journalist has that evidence it will probably form part of the Mail’s defence against the claim.

I'm reminded of an incident some years ago when a women's group I was involved in was approached by a transwoman who wanted to join. When we asked if she had a GRC we were told it was none of our business. When someone (it was years ago, no one would ask it now) asked if they were still, er, an intact male, we were told it was none of our business. We were then contacted by this person's wife who wanted us to know that the her partner was going to work every day as a man and tended only to present as female at the weekend, but had applied for a GRC and expected to receive it before long.

It's a farce, a complete farce. Nothing means anything. Someone who's got a GRC can still be presenting as their birth gender some of the time and can be operating over a number of different names and identities. And anyone who questions anything can end up in court.

Zoolock
Wow, that's like someone going through the GRC process then almost before the ink was dry on the application signing themselves up to a fertility clinic, stopping taking their hormones and getting pregnant, the way men do.

If the journalist has that evidence it will probably form part of the Mail’s defence against the claim

It's a hell of a gamble by Hayden. That is assuming that this evidence exists, because if it does the mail have the resources to find it and it will be disclosed in court.

Seems like Whittle and Burns missed that bit out of their 2004 GRA masterpiece, oversight or on purpose? Who knows. I think Whittle is giving a talk in MCR soon though, along with Tara thingy from TELI.

Tara Hewitt?
Co-founder of TELI with Jess Bradley (of Action for Trans Health, NUS Trans Officer & allegations of 'flashing'/inappropriate behaviours in trans support groups) ?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3374926-What-influence-does-TELI-have-on-government-public-services-and-charities-policies-Co-founders-include-Jess-Bradley-Tara-Hewitt-and-Michelle-Hudson

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3385533-Prominant-campaigning-role-of-Tara-Hewitt-NHS-TELI-Social-work-universities-etc

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3436955-Stephen-Whittle

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3249035-Stephen-Whittle-s-blog-on-Genderquake-with-a-detailed-briefing-for-panelists

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398127-Stephen-Whittle-influential-TRA-asserts-We-know-we-have-Labour-behind-this-one-so-will-simply-do-our-best-to-get-them-elected-Corbyn-seems-to-confirm-this-at-Pink-News

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3626735-Update-on-the-Jess-Bradley-position

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3520762-Jess-Bradley-government-advisor-and-suspended-NUS-Trans-Officer-Part-iv

Yes, a hell of a gamble.

But so was reporting Kate for tweeting mean things and ending in court while the magistrate heard all about your ‘bad character’!

Does anyone remember when SH’s ‘deadname’ self was on telly talking about property law?

The clips used to be on SH’s YouTube account (along with some footage of Thatcher’s funeral, strangely enough). They might’ve predated the Birkbeck years though, Thatcher died in 2013.

Does anyone remember when SH’s ‘deadname’ self was on telly talking about property law?

The clips used to be on SH’s YouTube account (along with some footage of Thatcher’s funeral, strangely enough). They might’ve predated the Birkbeck years though, Thatcher died in 2013.

Stephanie R Hayden refers to an appearance on BBC 2012 at the end of the essay posted on Judicial Cat blog:

About the Author

Stephanie is a male to female transgender person holding a Gender Recognition Certificate. She is a Bachelor of Laws and has been in legal professional practice since 2008. Stephanie practices in employment law and regularly appears in the Employment Tribunal. In 2012 she was granted a special right of audience in the High Court to represent a defendant in the case of Hardy v Jones & Others. Stephanie has appeared on BBC News in her previous legal gender to discuss the Royal Bank of Scotland computer crash of 2012 and regularly makes contributions on radio. She has written for both the London Evening Standard and the Daily Star."

judicialcat.blogspot.com/2018/08/gender-recognition-certificates-why.html

Whatever the outcome - DM et al are not going to show SH in a favourable light are they? Now or in the future. Surely this is a MASSIVE own goal?