Does transphobia actually exist? What does it actually mean?

[happydappy2]

If we separate out transwomen working in the sex industry which is inherently dangerous, are trans people actually victims of targeted harassment because of their trans status?

Is the 'hate' TRAs talk of just incorrect pronoun use, women voicing their concerns of having men in single sex spaces, telephone banking systems misgendering people? etc etc, all pretty trivial, certainly not literal violence.

I imagine most couldn't give 2 hoots how people 'identify' as long as they stick to the same rules as everyone else in society, but appreciate I could be wrong so looking for more information if anyone has any.

Yes they are.

Can you expand on that?

I imagine trans women who 'present' as women are at fairly high risk of being beaten up by homophobic men.

I imagine they can also have terrible getting jobs etc as TBF lots of people will think they're a bit weird. That's not my opinion, but realistic.

Yes I'm sure there's transphobia.

There absolutely is transphobia.
Not the same thing, but the fear of anything different in some people is extreme. My partner got a huge amount of homophobic harassment for meeting a friend (both men) in a unfamiliar pub. Awful. I can't imagine what a trans person would've experienced in that place.
What I observe, is a narrative that if only it wasn't for those horrible feminists it wouldn't exist. Sadly, I don't think that's true at all.

Well what do you want to know? A trans woman told me she experienced various unpleasant attacks on public transport etc.
You can’t possibly think there aren’t people out there picking on trans people? People get beaten up for a lot less.

Yeah i agree with frogs

But as transphobia can now mean not agreeing that TWAW I do struggle with the statistics

Of course there is transphobia..... it is well documented and bleeding obvious for anyone willing to see it.

OP are you genuinely unaware that gender nonconforming men and women are at risk of verbal, physical and sexual abuse?

Generally by men. (Although women are more than capable of dishing out verbal abuse, and less commonly violence but it does happen).

I'm trying to look past what TRAs tell us is hateful bigoted transphobia, which often is just women asserting their rights to boundaries, and looking to find evidence of real transphobia (if it even exists.) I feel the word is bandies about so often it is almost meaningless-so if anyone has evidence, I'm listening.

You want evidence that gender non conforming men have been beaten up in the UK?

Ummmm. I think you've led a very sheltered life tbh.

A transwoman was murdered recently after people took offence to her using the women’s toilets and accused her of being a pervert, they called police who found no evidence of any wrong doing on her part, she was later stalked, verbally abused shot and killed because of it. Of course transphobia exists.

I am GC and believe there is transphobia. It's different to the definition given by TRAs but I've seen trans people referred to as "it" online and I've seen transwomen (maybe they were cross dressers?) whispered and laughed about. "Nudge, nudge look at that! " sort of thing. I've heard cross dressers /trans women referred to as perverts and these are people doing normal stuff like getting on the tube.

I think that transwomen are at risk of huge risk of violence from homophobic men. I dont have evidence i'm afraid but it just seem obvious. I dont think male violence which impacts on men and women skips out trans people.
I also think there must be a certain low level of ridicule - which i have witnessed with a trans colleague and the pronoun thing comes into that. I think it would get very wearing and stressful.
I dont agree the answer to the above is some of the solutions put forward or that using transphobia to describe questioning medications, safeguarding and so on helps anyone.

In my opinion everything that is classed as transphobia is just homophobia and/or sexism.

When people are punished for failing to perform the sex role assigned to them at birth we used to call this sexism. If a woman was abused in the street for having short hair we would class this as sexism or homophobia. But if that person has a trans identity then it becomes transphobia. How is the random yob on the street supposed to see their gender identity? I doubt they've been swatting up on their Sheila Jeffries they probably just think "ew lesser!"

If a drag queen was beaten up with their transgender friend what would we say motivated the attackers? Either motive could be equally plausible. Would the police record a motive of 'homophobia' for the drag queen and 'transphobia' for the trans woman?

I'm not denying that trans people face abuse I just think its mis-classified because the motivation behind their attacks is that they are rejecting the gender norms expected of their sex.

I also feel like it is complicated when it comes to the gender critical crew. Is a lesbian who mocks a male lesbian guilty of transphobia? Or is the male lesbian guilty of lesbophohia when they try and appropriate lesbianism?

I'm in no doubt that trans women are at risk of being beaten up or worse. I don't think their risk is higher than other marginalized groups like the homeless, women and disabled but they are certainly at risk. I've been in situations like traveling on a train with drunk football supporters on match day and I sit there desperately hoping that they won't talk to me. Luckily I'm a middle aged woman who's not going to make eye contact with them but sometimes you know that these groups will easily descend from annoying and loud to violent and Bolshevik if you're unlucky,

I think the OP must be suffering ‘boy-who-cried-wolf syndrome’. Probably heard so many things being described as transphobic that it’s getting hard to believe any of it is true ... something I’ve seen people here warn about.

But yes, there is real, horrific, transphobia out there - trans people suffering abuse and violence.

I don't believe that we should be debating whether transphobia exists. Any more than we should debate whether racism, sexism or prejudice against the disabled etc exists? That's offensive.

There are legitimate questions to be asked about definitions and where society draws lines with all prejudice etc but asking whether it exists is to me shameful.

Yes of course it exists, do you really not think that transsexuals get abused on a daily basis?
However I don't think that feminists are generally the people being transphobic.

Transwomen are so afraid of being beaten up by men.
Men are the problem.

Yep, it exists alongside racism, homophobia, misogyny, etc.

However, not everything denounced as transphobic actually is.

I think there is a serious problem with using control words such as 'transphobia' to silence debate about the aggressive dictates of an aggressive lobby group. Public confidence in the police is at an all time low. The police have unilaterally decided to stop investigating certain crimes. Burglary for example. But they are zealous about policing Twitter. Harry Miller has a police record for tweeting a limerick. Whilst a prolific, hammer wielding recidivist criminal avoids prison. Is this justice? The duty of the police in a functioning democracy is to protect its citizens from criminals and maintain impartiality. The UK police are failing in both categories.

It was a reasonable question, but you won't get many helpful answers. Someone saying "yes of course it exists" gets us no closer to the question of violence versus misgendering.

I'm sure there is some violence against trans, but every time someone mentions it I remember the video of the 4 transwomen kicking that guy on the ground in the railway station. That made it harder to think of them as helpless victims.

That's not what the op asked.

Op asked if it exists. Of course the answer is yes.

gets us no closer to the question of violence versus misgendering

Can you explain what you mean by this using clear, concise language? Are you attempting to conflate physical violence with an incorrect use of pronouns?