What do you think about the rainbow flag?

[DJLippy]

Does anyone else get a shudder when they see a rainbow flag outside a venue? Harry the Owl compared it to a Nazi flag and I'm inclined to agree.

I'm Bisexual so I should be thrilled to find all these inclusive spaces but I just feel a stab of anxiety and make a mental note to steer well clear. It's a real physiological reaction not something I can control.

A few years ago I used to love seeing the pride flag outside bars. I guess back then it actually meant something. Now I feel like it's actually a sign of exclusion - that anyone who doesn't believe that twaw is not safe there.

Also it does kind of imply that all the other venues are a threat to the LGBTQI++ people. I actually get a lot less grief being with a woman in a normie bar than I would in a gay bar. What's more its often just random cafes and shops which as far as I am aware have no gay history. Just feels like a cheap virtue signal by straight woke folk.

I'd be interested in hearing from people who are same sex attracted. Do you feel that the flag which used to represent your community been appropriated by male supremacists? Do you self exclude from spaces which fly the rainbow flag?

There is so much pro Trans and LGB support I wonder if as an old white woman I would be ignored if I approached a police person.
To be fair I don't really think this is the case but so much rainbow does smack of favouring to make up for historical bias.

I'm a bisexual woman.

Feminism (the mainstream type) these days means including everyone (i.e. men), and no longer centers women. It carries no real meaning or weight and is unable to effect genuine change.

Similarly, the rainbow flag these days seems to me about including everyone from the alphabet soup and about people's fetishes and a way for straight people to feel special with all sorts of made up identities. It doesn't center respect for LGB / same-sex attraction. It's all about the 'queers' and is usually accompanied by the trans flag to indicate that no one else is as special as the T.
It carries no real meaning or weight and is unable to effect genuine change.

It's more irritating, than worrying to me, although if I see it in schools I immediately worry about indoctrination from Stonewall, and it's sinister seeing the police become obsessed by it.
Otherwise it's a lazy way for corporations and services to act like they are all about 'inclusiveness' and 'diversity' when in reality it's a fashionable bandwagon that they think might bring in a few more pennies or Twitter likes. They don't give the same consideration to people who are disabled or have learning difficulties or from different ethnic, social and educational backgrounds. Easy to slap on a rainbow lanyard or badge and think that makes you very open minded and accepting (while denouncing anyone who doesn't agree with TWAW as abhorrent bigots).

The rainbow flag doesn't feel like it represents and welcomes me as a bisexual woman. It no longer respects my same sex attraction. I am bigoted and transphobic.
Lesbians, gays and bisexuals are not allowed room to simply be themselves anymore.
I read a short article a couple of days ago written by a gay man about his time as a young man in the 80s and 90s, and somehow in the text he managed to work in a grovelling self derogatory apology for being a 'cis, white, privileged male'. Like FFS, have some self-respect! Why does a gay man have to apologise when talking about his life around the time of Section 28, when it was genuinely difficult being openly homosexual than it is today to be an 'oppressed' queer, non-binary demisexual, cis femme who is in a 'lesbian' relationship with a transwoman who looks like your average bloke. 🙄🙄🙄

*Just happened to me, about 3 minutes before spotting the thread. Southwest trains ticket collector has a rainbow lanyard.

What is that all about. Trains should be women friendly, gay friendly, child friendly, racial minority friendly, elderly friendly, disabled friendly, whatever. We have all bought ticket in order to get from A to B, and all we really want from the train company is to do this efficiently.*

Exactly. As regards NHS rainbow lanyards and badges we have a duty of care towards everyone who uses the NHS. It's in our professional codes of conduct.
Do you think the elderly man I spoke to yesterday who had spent 24 hours on a trolley in A&E before he finally got a bed gives a damn about the rainbow? He was very sweetly sympathising with the other people even worse off on their trolleys and the people stuck on wheelchairs who didn't even get a trolley.
A sense of proportion and understanding priorities goes a long way.

To all the people who dislike the rainbow flag, what is your solution?

Bars and other businesses shouldn't use it at all? NHS workers shouldn't wear the lanyards?

Where does that leave all the gay people like me who see it the way it is intended? As something that makes us feel safe, acknowledged and accepted? Do our feelings not matter?

Do our feelings not matter?

I could ask the same question? I find the rainbow flag to be intimidating. Do my feelings not matter?

A lanyard makes you feel safe? So people need to wear something to display fact that they aren’t homophobic? You aren’t concerned about the pushing out of lesbians by the T part of the rainbow?

could ask the same question? I find the rainbow flag to be intimidating. Do my feelings not matter?

In what context? If you find gay bars intimidating then there are millions of others without rainbow flags you can go to.

Yes Lordfrontpaw as a lesbian a rainbow lanyard makes me feel safe and accepted. There are plenty of nasty, judgmental, homophobic people in the world.

The 'pushing out of lesbians' is an entirely different conversation and nothing to do with the rainbow flag.

In what context? If you find gay bars intimidating then there are millions of others without rainbow flags you can go to

No, not gay bars. I already explained, as did others, about workplaces using the rainbow flag and rainbow lanyards etc. I fear for my job, my livelihood, and I know that I almost certainly can't use the toilets and be sure that they are only for women.

Agree with the OP. I find it intimidating. I used to find it inspiring that people could get together & be inclusive of different lifestyles, etc, but now it's becoming increasingly about who is excluded, very restrictive of what & who are "acceptable".

The whole Pride - it’s become something very different.

Who are the loudest voices, who are making the demands? This is why some people are now looking at the rainbow and having feelings on unease. The activists are making women feel that they are having their rights targeted - this is something that gay rights activists never demanded.

The lanyards are just handed out willy nilly in offices and events these days. It doesn’t mean the person is a ‘good person’. Staff are being bullied into wearing them - for whatever reason - how does that make them feel?

I do think that the Fair Cop guys and some people here are getting paranoid about this

Harry Miller has a police record, yet a judge has ruled he committed no crime. Public confidence in the police is at an all time low, yet while they fail to investigate real crimes, they are zealous about policing Twitter at the behest of a lobby whose adherents are prone to making spurious accusations of hate speech. That was another observation by Justice Knowles. It is interesting that you dismiss public disenchantment with this dysfunctional, Orwellian situation as paranoid. It is nothing of the sort. But the more these events are reported, the more public resistance will increase. That's great news for democracy and freedom of speech.

The 'pushing out of lesbians' is an entirely different conversation and nothing to do with the rainbow flag

A totally false assertion. It is because of Stonewall's colonisation by the trans lobby

Exactly. My lesbian sister was not best pleased to hear that she really ought to sleep with a male bodied lesbian because - y’know stonewall says they are a lesbian. Otherwise she is a hateful bigot.

The local prison here flies the flag. Sadly the flag itself is no longer meaningful. (Just my opinion)

Otherwise she is a hateful bigot

Calling your sister names in an attempt to bully and coerce her into doing something she does not want to do is quite despicable. This lobby is synonymous with authoritarians who repeatedly lecture women. Their control words should be resisted.

I’ve mentioned this before but Stonewall have called the police on me twice for protesting about lesbian rights outside their events.

Then there was what happened to the eight brave lesbians at Pride. Something is seriously wrong here.

All the history talks about it being created in 1978, but it wasn't around in the UK when I came out at the end of the 80s, it was all pink / black triangles, the labrys and double women symbols. I can't remember how it started to be popular here, and I've not found anything that explains it, but it was sometime mid or late 1990s maybe.

Then there was what happened to the eight brave lesbians at Pride. Something is seriously wrong here

Absolutely agree.

isabellerosingol how exactly has the rainbow lanyard at work made you fear for your job and your livelihood? And how many times have you encountered trans women in the female toilets at your work?

Shall we compare it to the amount of times I've experienced casual homophobia in the workplace and in my life in general?

Lesbians are constantly being thrown under a bus on here.

Lesbians are constantly being thrown under a bus on here

Can you explain who is doing the throwing? The National Theatre bar incident for example?

How does a rainbow lanyard make you feel safe? I'm a British Asian woman. Why does no one wear lanyards to show me they are not racist and sexist so that I can 'feel safe' when I'm interacting with them? Or does it not matter that much that the number of people affected by racism and sexism are higher than incidents of homophobia?

Here's my grown-up way of handling interactions with people: I do not assume anyone is racist, sexist or homophobic by default. I have rights as anyone else in the UK to not be subjected to racism, sexism or homophobia. The law is on my side. I don't need badges and lanyards to 'help' me identify anything about anybody.
I expect respect from others irrespective of my sex, skin colour or sexuality. And I am almost always proven right. People in general are polite and respectful and accommodating of differences. I treat people as I wish to be treated - I do not want to be treated differently because of my sex, skin colour or sexual orientation, so I behave in the same way with other people.

People can tell your sex and usually your ethnicity based on skin colour and other physical features. There's more chance of discriminatory behaviour because you can't hide these characteristics.
You can't tell someone's sexuality simply by looking at them (although you might make an educated guess based on certain stereotypes or personal information).

Gays, lesbians and bisexuals struggled for the right to be accepted as a normal part of society. Lots of us don't want to be singled out as special. We don't want our sexuality advertised all the time. It's not the only aspect about our lives that's worth noticing. There's still homophobia that needs to be tackled, but no one wants to actually solve such issues. Far easier to hand out rainbow badges than directly speak to people who make rude remarks.

isabellerosingol how exactly has the rainbow lanyard at work made you fear for your job and your livelihood? And how many times have you encountered trans women in the female toilets at your work?

I have encountered transwomen colleagues in the ladies toilets at work regularly. If I refuse to use the ladies toilets at the same time, I have been told I will be disciplined, up to possibly losing my job.

Let's put it this way, my lesbian colleagues don't wear rainbow lanyards. And they try to avoid the ladies toilets too.

How does a rainbow lanyard make you feel safe? I'm a British Asian woman. Why does no one wear lanyards to show me they are not racist and sexist so that I can 'feel safe' when I'm interacting with them? Or does it not matter that much that the number of people affected by racism and sexism are higher than incidents of homophobia?

Great point.

Where's the lanyard for 'I'm not a misogynist'?

What makes me especially sad is the number of lesbian, bisexual and detransitioned women who will, in the future, potentially see the rainbow flag as a representation of their oppression. And yes, that's a projection, because we are not yet there, but for a lot of feminists the reality is that our feminist values grew stronger as we aged. So those women might feel they were invalidated, excluded, discriminated against by the very people to whom they looked for compassion and understanding.

I might be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. But I suspect I'm not.