What do you think about the rainbow flag?

[DJLippy]

Does anyone else get a shudder when they see a rainbow flag outside a venue? Harry the Owl compared it to a Nazi flag and I'm inclined to agree.

I'm Bisexual so I should be thrilled to find all these inclusive spaces but I just feel a stab of anxiety and make a mental note to steer well clear. It's a real physiological reaction not something I can control.

A few years ago I used to love seeing the pride flag outside bars. I guess back then it actually meant something. Now I feel like it's actually a sign of exclusion - that anyone who doesn't believe that twaw is not safe there.

Also it does kind of imply that all the other venues are a threat to the LGBTQI++ people. I actually get a lot less grief being with a woman in a normie bar than I would in a gay bar. What's more its often just random cafes and shops which as far as I am aware have no gay history. Just feels like a cheap virtue signal by straight woke folk.

I'd be interested in hearing from people who are same sex attracted. Do you feel that the flag which used to represent your community been appropriated by male supremacists? Do you self exclude from spaces which fly the rainbow flag?

I think it's really sad that lesbians and bisexual women shudder at the rainbow flag.

Do you think patriotic English football supporters shudder when they see the St George's cross?

Right wing fascists have used the St George's cross but it doesn't make it a fascist symbol and it shouldn't stop it being used for patriotism.

The rainbow flag belongs to gay people.

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that trans has its own flag?
No one is. We’re not talking about that though. If the trans lobby had just come up with their own flag, campaigned for their own rights, and not co-opted the whole lesbian, gay & bisexual pride & women’s rights movements, we’d all be cheering them on in 100% support I expect.

You’re still denying other women’s experiences. Honestly, it’s great that you haven’t experienced what we have, it’s lovely that you still only have positive associations with the rainbow flag. Many of us used to have that and don’t anymore.

Do people who get a shudder when they see a St George's flag hate the English? It used to be a symbol for England but it was hijacked by racists and now many people feel uncomfortable when they see someone flying this outside their house. Obviously not all people who do so are racist but due to the actions of extremists it's taken on certain connotations. The fact that the pride flag has been adopted by police forces across the UK to "pink wash" their corruptiona and then those forces subsequently use 'LGBTQIA+ to police free speech has damaged the flag.

Its disengenous to pretend as a lesbian that you havent been conscious of the addition of all those letters to the LGBT alphabet. Straight people (does The A in the LGBTAI++ stand for allie or ace? Who knows!) are allowed to take ownership of the flag and harass actual gays, lesbians and bisexuals. If it now makes actual gay people feel unsafe maybe you should listen to them instead of accusing them of homophobia. There is disagreement in the community sure but I feel like you are doing purity politics and attacking certain LgB folk for wrong think. You could listen to all the women explaining why they feel so alienated and unsafe you might learn something

The analogy with football is apt. Football has worked hard to be inclusive and kick racism out of football. Still a work in progress but the will is there. I look forward to the same re misogyny in the Stonewall \ Pride nexus.

I think it's really sad that lesbians and bisexual women shudder at the rainbow flag.
I think we all agree here

I imagine some do, after being threatened by racists draped in it, yes @SapphosRock

I think it's really sad that lesbians and bisexual women shudder at the rainbow flag.

Well yes. It’s tragic. But it’s true. The rainbow is synonymous with Stonewall - now the biggest homophobes going - and Pride, which is now explicitly unfriendly to lesbians.

anyone who is not in the ‘in’ group (transgender) must be subordinate.
I think this is it. This is why it now makes me uneasy (as others have said, I used to love it).
Wherever its displayed, you know that there's a risk that the people running the place might choose you as an example to 'educate' and 'name and shame' on twitter.
I've seen some TRAs comment that they just assume that butch lesbians are 'terfs' now or someone is because they have 'terf bangs' or just look like one whatever that means, so it doesn't even matter if you're suitably deferential.
You'd spend the whole time aware that you mustn't put a foot wrong or just have the wrong look.
Better and safer to go somewhere else.

It makes me sad for my stepdaughter, who is experiencing lesbophobic bullying in school and desperately wants to opt out of being female.

She says that rainbows are everywhere and it makes it seem like society is accepting of same sex attraction, but she’s got classmates whispering about not wanting to undress near her for PE and the girl she likes, likes boys.

It’s supposed to be a symbol of pride and positivity but for her, it’s a reminder of shame and self loathing.

I think it's really sad that lesbians and bisexual women shudder at the rainbow flag.
Sap

Are you really unable to understand why? It's because the rainbow flag is synonymous with the trans lobby. When women are getting kicked out of the National Theatre bar for wearing t shirts with the dictionary definition of lesbian during Pride Week? Something is seriously wrong. The LGB has been colonised by the T. The trans lobby's authoritarian obsessives are making headline news every day. Taking a battering ram to sex segregated spaces. Championing drag queens in primary schools. Compelled speech. Policing pronouns. Puberty blockers. Cancel culture. Stop pretending that those objecting to this are homophobic. They are nothing of the sort.

I associate the rainbow flag with misogyny these days. I find it very menacing.

Anti woman intolerance.

It makes me sneer now. Which is awful. I’m actually sick of seeing it, and sick of seeing police cars, post vans, cross walks and shop fronts etc draped in it.

DD wanted a rainbow umbrella a while ago and when I said I wouldn’t buy it (but she could spend her own money on it if she wanted) she said “Oooh where’s your gay pride mum?” And I snapped back “I don’t have any” - both DD and the shop assistant visibly cringed and I was shocked at my own reaction. At least it led to a good discussion about how I felt the rainbow and Pride had been hijacked.

It’s so commercial bandwagony now. I remember when it wasn’t hung out without consideration. It would catch your eye. You would wonder if they were safe or if they’d had their windows out put in. You would feel like giving it a salute. You would smile and nod at them.

Not it’s hanging off every schoolkid and Granny’s shopping bag.

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that trans has its own flag?

As if we could ever forget! But remember that the ‘genderqueer’ flag colours were nicked from the suffragettes - and they then whined that women had stolen it from them (because the numpties didn’t know that these were the suffragette colours).

It's meaningless now. Plus it winds me up slightly that it has six, rather than seven colours.

The original has 8.

Chiming in to agree with this:

I think it's really sad that lesbians and bisexual women shudder at the rainbow flag.

My own experiences broadly match @SapphosRock.

I feel v frustrated by the virtue-signalling (whether that’s pro-trans or pro-LGB) rainbow-washing which has made the rainbow flag almost meaningless. It’s a long time since I’ve really been out on the scene (8 years!! since I had my first child), but I would still expect a rainbow flag outside a pub or club to denote it as a gay bar. Fucking rainbow flags in the window of Costa I would expect to denote nothing.

Genuinely curious, please could people give some examples of how the rainbow flag is now synonymous with the trans lobby? My only RL interaction with trans-focused campaigners I think is when I see them at Pride, and the trans flag features very heavily around those people. I can see why people might feel uneasy around the trans flag.

As I say, it’s been 8 years since I’ve really been out on the scene (although I pass through Soho in the daytime quite regularly), so perhaps I am missing something. I’m not asking about the prominence of TRAs or the legal cases or whatever - I’m asking specifically about how the rainbow flag appears to be so closely associated with all that for some people, because I just can’t see it myself.

I think there is definitely some homophobia on this thread though. Oh, and I absolutely dress my children in rainbows at Pride. Because they are children with a lesbian mother, with many lesbian family friends, and if I’m “indoctrinating” them into thinking that’s OK then I’m guilty as charged. Struggling to not see the view opposing this as homophobic, tbh.

I also think that endless virtue-signalling rainbows, yes alongside #nodebate culture, contributes to creating this sort of backlash.

I used to love it when it hung outside genuinely lgb establishments - in my mind it was synonmous with fantastic bars and nightclubs that were genuinely inclusive of everyone and everyone was free to be themselves and have a great time. Now I inwardly groan at every flag stuck on supermarket windows, every lanyard at work dangling around managers' necks etc - it smacks of the usual corporate bullshit mixed with an underlying message that anyone questioning any tq+ stuff will put their jobs at risk. All negative for me now I'm sorry to say.

Well thank goodness I'm not the only one
@NellWilsonsWhiteHair

I absolutely dress my children in rainbows at Pride. Because they are children with a lesbian mother

Yep me too.

I am also struggling to see how the rainbow flag has much to do with the trans lobby. When I've seen trans people protest or March for trans pride (I live in Brighton so have seen a few) it's always the trans flag that features.

As an aside I very much appreciate rainbow badges and lanyards in the NHS. Healthcare professionals so often assume I'm straight and seeing a rainbow lanyard makes me so much more comfortable revealing my sexuality (when relevant).

Transactivists coopt everything. They are never satisfied. They want the rainbow flag and the suffragette colours to be all about them too.

I think it’s the rainbow-decked gay bars posting ‘No Terfs On Our Turf’ signs up at their doors that makes many women feel unwelcome. Which is the intention, clearly. Agree that TWAW - with all the implications of that - or you can’t come in. Somehow, that’s given many same-sex attracted women pause for thought about their place in ‘the community!’

For me the reason the rainbow flag is synonymous with trans is because the institutions that are now chanting TWAW and banning women only events or asking for ‘anyone that identifies as female’ are flying it.

When the police are coating themselves in rainbows then ‘checking your thinking’ and ignoring attacks on lesbians whilst escorting ‘lesbians on chairs‘ off the premises, then it’s a trans flag.

Genuinely curious, please could people give some examples of how the rainbow flag is now synonymous with the trans lobby?

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case, the place that I see it is in my workplace. The LGBT staff group is very vocal, very aggressive (wanting disciplinary action against female staff who so much as look sideways at a man in a dress in the ladies toilets), and very devoid of lesbians or gay people. It seems to consist only of the T part of the name.